Lee Load data

[Archie]

The (my?) biggest complaint with Lee loading data is I find it very modest. Low pressure. Slow.

But it is done that way on purpose. It allows any case and any bullet (of the weight specified) and a charge FROM THE DIPPER provided and one has a safe load. You'll have a loaded round. It also does the same with the Lee powder measures with the pre-set volume disks. One cannot 'split the difference' between two dippers. Or disks.

With a specific manual, and adjustable powder measure and scale - all three - one can come up with a specific powder weight for a load.

A Lee die set is all one needs (more or less). No need to buy other stuff. The downside is the limitations on loads.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

@Varminterror,
I said "for the most part", not every bullet. I also said brands are not as important as composition and weight which is true.

As for safety, that is why data is provided in ranges and not usually one powder weight. Starting low and working up is the safety valve.

I would offer a caution which is contrary to this advice:

There are many bullets with unique profiles which simply do not behave the same way as others of the same weight. In some cases, mixing these with generic data for similar bullet weights might just lead to poor accuracy, in other cases, it can lead to excessive pressure events. Having data from the bullet manufacturer is important, as it can offer insight into safely loading their particular profile. For example - I can put more powder at lower pressure under a 180 grain HotCor in my B&D mag than I can put under a 158grn XTP. Why? Because the bearing surface of the XTP is twice as long as the HotCor. Monometal bullets, as another example, will be light for their length, and the solid copper body won’t conform to the bore as willingly as a leadcore bullet, so they’ll often have what appears to be reduced load data compared to other bullets on their weight class. Naturally, lead or plated bullets of the same weight often can’t use the same load data as jacketed bullets. Partitions & A-Frame’s will often act like a monometal, producing greater pressure at lower loads, and preferring a longer jump to the lands. COAL’s can’t be transferred from one bullet to the next. Bearing surfaces for a 50grn boattail and a 50grn flat base will be very different.

While it might seem confusing to rely upon multiple sources of data, and it might seem expensive to own multiple manuals, consider you’re operating what could potentially become a grenade. I own a few hundred dollars worth of loading manuals, buying more as they are released, and I keep a digital catalog of the free data available from powder manufacturers. I use my hands around 6,000 hours per year, and make my living with them - saving some data gathering and research time or saving a couple hundred bucks over a decade really isn’t any comparison to saving my fingers.

 

[rdnktrkr]

I watched a friend load 45c on a single stage, after sizing and flaring he had a case with wire attached using it like a dipper, he used loader blocks just like when I load riffle, he said that was how he was trained many yrs ago, he had different dippers that were different sizes. He dipped, then tapped 3 times on the container, then charged his round. He weighs his riffle charges. I prefer the Lee Turret with the disc measure and thinking about it, it works the same as what he does.

 

[mdi]

The (my?) biggest complaint with Lee loading data is I find it very modest. Low pressure. Slow.

Lee does not "control" any of the data they publish. All Lee data is from other sources, just like the "one caliber" Loadbooks pamphlets...

 

[Alan W]

All this talk of dippers and powder measures is over my head at this point. I use a beam scale, use the lee dipper that came with the dies to get close to my weight then use a powder trickler to get it precise. I only load about 10-15 cartridges at a time. Here was my initial concern- I have a Lyman 50th load manual. I am loading .30-.30 only at this point. Lyman only lists a few brand specific bullets which I ordered and used. But I have found other bullets I am interested in that are not in the Lyman manual. Specifically a Speer 110 grain jacketed hollow point. Speer's website has no data on this bullet for the .30-.30, so I wonder if the Speer load manual does. The Speer section in the One Book I bought does have load data, but not for the IMR 3031 powder I have. Can I use the 110 grain Jacketed data for IMR 3031 in my Lee 30-30 die instruction manual as long as I start at the low number?

 

[horsey300]

All this talk of dippers and powder measures is over my head at this point. I use a beam scale, use the lee dipper that came with the dies to get close to my weight then use a powder trickler to get it precise. I only load about 10-15 cartridges at a time. Here was my initial concern- I have a Lyman 50th load manual. I am loading .30-.30 only at this point. Lyman only lists a few brand specific bullets which I ordered and used. But I have found other bullets I am interested in that are not in the Lyman manual. Specifically a Speer 110 grain jacketed hollow point. Speer's website has no data on this bullet for the .30-.30, so I wonder if the Speer load manual does. The Speer section in the One Book I bought does have load data, but not for the IMR 3031 powder I have. Can I use the 110 grain Jacketed data for IMR 3031 in my Lee 30-30 die instruction manual as long as I start at the low number?

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
Start 30.5 max 32.5, work up in .3 increments, good luck!
Eta, coal may be different depending on your rifle.

 

[mdi]

All this talk of dippers and powder measures is over my head at this point. I use a beam scale, use the lee dipper that came with the dies to get close to my weight then use a powder trickler to get it precise.

I have been using this method for over 35 years (along with using a powder measure about half the time too). I'm not into "speed loading" nor quantity loading, mainly because I like to reload and have the time...

 

[AshMan40]

Go to the powder maker websites for up-to-date load data

I get most of my data online, mostly because it's quick with all the different cartridges I load and is easy to help plan for future cartridges.

A word of caution on powder manufacture's load data or only using one data source... I recently had a problem with .308 WIN load data from Hodgdon's site. The Hodgdon 150gr bullet starting load was ABOVE the max load listed in my Hornady manual. I ended up with a stuck case in my bolt action rifle and extreme pressure signs. The MV of the Hodgdon starting load was already at the same MV for the Hodgdon max load listed.

I mistakenly assumed the powder maker's data would be more up-to-date and reliable than a manual that was a few years old. The safer approach is to use multiple sources (as mentioned by others above) and start with the lower charge data available. Then work up the charges watching for pressure signs along the way. I have found the Hornady manual to be on the conservative side while the Hodgdon load data tends to be on the hotter side listing MV well above the Hornady max loads. This could be due to different test barrels.


There are multiple variables you need to pay attention to. Each can change the pressure (a little or a lot) and result in dangerous situations.

• Obviously, a larger powder charge will increase the pressure
• Heavier bullets accelerate slower and will build pressure, so generally you will use less powered for heavier bullets
  
• A shorter COAL will reduce the volume inside the case; resulting in increased pressure.
  
• Different bullets designs (eg. FP, FMJ, SP, RN,etc.) can mean more or less case volume for the same COAL. This is why the COAL for a specific bullet type/shape/weight are important. A 150gr FMJ will have a different amount of usable case volume compared with a 150gr RN bullet at the same COAL.
  
• A longer COAL which places the bullet closer to (or against) the lands in the barrel will reduce the space the bullet will have to "jump" forward before hitting resistance to forward motion. This can cause pressure increases. You can often see lower MV when you reduce the COAL for rounds that are sitting just short of the lands in the barrel. This would seem counter-intuitive because reduced COAL means less case volume which should INCREASE the pressure/MV.
  
• Higher ambient temps (or direct sunlight) will increase the pressures a given charge will create, all else being equal. Some powders are more sensitive to temp differences than others. Try not to leave your loads sitting in the sun. Loads developed in the winter may have more pressure when used in the summer (warmer) months.
• Generally, longer barrels will result in higher MV for the same charge. The longer barrel means more time for the gas pressure to accelerate the bullet in the barrel. When comparing listed MV it helps to know the make/model of the test rifle and the length of the barrel. If you are using a shorter barrel do not try to match the MV of a longer barrel. If you are using a longer barrel, you may reach the listed MV using a lighter load.
• Volume (cc) charging systems become less consistent when used at their extreme lower/upper limits. Be careful if throwing charges at the lower end of what a system is capable of (eg. Lee disc systems). You may occasionally get very light charges that could result in a squib that would obstruct your barrel. The next fired round would be catastrophic. At the high end, you can start to see wider variations between loads.
  I always throw a sampling of at least 10 loads and visually inspect them with a flashlight to look for light loads, or accidental double charges. I also measure them by weight for consistency. Only after I am comfortable that the loads are being thrown consistently do I start bulk loading using my turret press. I never bulk load max pressure loads.
  
• When loading to max (or near max) loads... I measure each load on the scale.
• Very light loads that have a large volume of empty space inside the case can results in wild MV difference even with the same powder load. If all the powder is settled at the primer end of the case it will ignite all the powder and get higher pressures/MV. But if the powder is spread along the side of the case as it rests in the chamber or is collected at the bullet end, it will not ignite well and you can even have unburnt powder blowing out the end of the barrel. In extreme cases the charge may not ignite at all (dud) or worse... hang fire!
  
• At the opposite end, loads that nearly fill the case w/o being compressed are the most consistent. So choosing a powder that results in cases that are nearly full for a given bullet tends to results in the best/consistent/most accurate loads.