Legal Century Arms FAL for Florida

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mnrivrat

mnrivrat

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CAI Built Fal sold via gunbroker to a buyer in FL . Dealer who received this gun claims it has to be modified to be legal ,by changing numerous parts . (wants to charge customer $600 for making it legal)

Anyone shed any light on this ??? Does Florida have some set of laws that are strickter than federal regulations that would make a standard CAI built FAL illegal in that state ??
 
There could be an issue here.

Under Federal law rifles such as the FAL must contain a certain number of US made parts to be legal. If they have less then the required number of U.S. made parts they are illegal imported assault rifles.

The Century FAL rifles were legal in the configuration orignally imported by Century. Some of these rifles had a thumb hole stock and other less desirable features.

If the previous owner modified the rifle by replacing some of the U.S. made parts (such as the thumb hole stock) with non-U.S. parts he may have altered the rifle into an illegal configuration. Look into 922 r compliance issues for more info.

I can't say for sure about any particular rifle without knowing more about the specifics. But, there may be a legitimite problem.

Ask him to explain more about the situation. How does he know the rifle is illegal in the present configuration? What specific parts make it illegal? What parts does he plan to change and how will they make it legal? His answers should help you figure out what's up.

Now if the dealer is refering to something in Florida law, then I have no clue.
 
I call BS with this. Trebor raised a valid point with 922 compliance but even if it was modified I really doubt the dealer is going to know for sure whether or not the parts are US made. I think the dealer is just trying to milk some money out of his customer.
 
I call BS with this. Trebor raised a valid point with 922 compliance but even if it was modified I really doubt the dealer is going to know for sure whether or not the parts are US made. I think the dealer is just trying to milk some money out of his customer.
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Always a possibility as well. There are unscruplus dealers out there. I'm really curious exactly what the dealer has to say about what he thinks is illegal and why.
 
Thanks for the posts guys - rifle not mine but I remember it some from last time I visited where it was. It has a thumbhole stock and was bought from an FFL dealer in the state it was shipped from - to Florida.

I am short on details at this time yet, but $600 worth of work would be a lot of parts - I was thinking the FFL there is trying to pull something as well . I am not familiar with 922 other than I had thought it was an import compliance thing - this gun was put out by Century so what parts would have gotten changed to make it illegal , or non compliant in Florida.

It is not a full auto, or an attempted conversion, it has the thumbhole stock, and if I recall correctly, it might have a small muzzle brake that is permantly fixed (?). The one thing mentioned by the dealer in FL was that the brake had to be threaded on to be compliant ? I thought the opposite was true.

Any more information is sure welcome , I am passing this on to the previous owner who is dealing with this issue.
 
Anyone shed any light on this ??? Does Florida have some set of laws that are strickter than federal regulations that would make a standard CAI built FAL illegal in that state ??
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No, Florida doesn't have any extra laws so the only thing it could be, outside of a scam, is 922. That's if the gun hasn't been modified into something else. If someone has done something on their own there's no telling what it might be.

I would demand a very specific list of what the dealer believes to be illegal and why he believes it to be that way. That would be my starting point.
 
Trebor said:
There could be an issue here.

Under Federal law rifles such as the FAL must contain a certain number of US made parts to be legal. If they have less then the required number of U.S. made parts they are illegal imported assault rifles.
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There could well be, but it's damn sure not the FFL holders place to do anything about it.

He (the receiving FFL) didn't manufacture it, so he's not liable.
Simple possession of a non-922r compliant long gun isn't a crime, either.


I, too, smell shenanigans.
 
Smells fishy. Even if there is a 922r issue, compliance parts should run only $100 or so, or even less, and installation is pretty simple. Maybe $200 total, max, with installation. And as others pointed out, a 922r compliance issue is not the problem of either the FFL or the purchaser.

No Florida-specific laws on point that I know of.

I would ask the FFL for a detailed rationale, in writing. If they won't provide that, I say scam.
 
Didn't the CAI FALs actually sell for about $600 new?

The one thing mentioned by the dealer in FL was that the brake had to be threaded on to be compliant ?
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I call BS on this.

I smell a crooked scam going on . . .
 
Go to FALfiles.com and ask about this and they'll tell you or ask W.E.G. who's here the question since he's the local FAL expert.

922r compliance parts may or may not be expensive depending upon the quality of what you put on. A thumbhole stock CAI FAL won't have any 922r parts except the stock/grip. While prices for a "922r kit" may have been $100 at one time, these days the prices are higher because you don't have the availability that previously existed. gunpartsguy has a lower swap where you send your thumbhole lower in and get a 922r 5 part lower back for about $270. That makes just 2 parts short for the full 7 part foolishness. Purchase a US flash hider for $60 and a $40 gas piston or one of the other parts below on the upper and you're GTG. Adds up to roughly $370 for a dead simple 922r conversion. That tells me the shop in question is being run by thieves if they want $600 for the "conversion".

Look here (http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildFalVerifyCompliance) for a FAL 922r "calculator" to give you an idea of the requirements.

Here's the BATFE reg.

[T.D. ATF-270, 53 FR 10494, Mar. 31, 1988]

[[Page 941]]

Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun

using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this

section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under

section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily

adaptable to sporting purposes.

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution

by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or

agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political

subdivision thereof; or

(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of

testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the

provisions of Sec. 178.151; or

(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into

or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the

replacement of any part of such firearm.

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings

(2) Barrels

(3) Barrel extensions

(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)

(5) Muzzle attachments

(6) Bolts

(7) Bolt carriers

(8) Operating rods

(9) Gas pistons

(10) Trigger housings

(11) Triggers

(12) Hammers

(13) Sears

(14) Disconnectors

(15) Buttstocks

(16) Pistol grips

(17) Forearms, handguards

(18) Magazine bodies

(19) Followers

(20) Floorplates
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In the case of the FAL you need 7 compliant parts to build a "compliant" weapon (if you use a (5) Muzzle attachment also known as a flash hider). In English what that means is you have to have 7 parts that are American manufacture in the rifle you build, if you use the flash hider, or at some time in the future when they catch you they will lock you up. Otherwise you can get by with 6 parts.
Usually the following parts are used. These parts are not in order of cost or commonality but of what is seen most frequently.

(1) Frame, receiver.

(8) Operating rod (In the case of the FAL, BATF determined the Charging Handle performed that function and is a compliant part if American made)

(9) Gas piston

(10) Trigger housing (In the case of the FAL, BATF determined the Lower Receiver performed that function and is a compliant part if American made)

(11) Trigger

(12) Hammer

(13) Sear

(15) Buttstock

(16) Pistol grips

(17) Forearms, hand guards (in the case of the FAL)

(19) Followers

(20) Floorplates
 
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"...gun was put out by Century..." It might take $600 worth of parts and shop time to make it work reliably. Century is well known for assembling FAL's with a mixture of inch and metric parts.
Saying it needs $600 worth of work to make it legal is nonsense though. If a dealer has it, common sense says it has to be legal. Dealers don't buy stuff they can't sell.
 
Sunray said:
If a dealer has it, common sense says it has to be legal. Dealers don't buy stuff they can't sell.
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Reading is fundamental. The dealer in question is acting as a transfer agent in this.
 
The dealer is a crook. Enough said. As for the muzzle brake, it has to be permanently affixed for the rifle to avoid having to be 922(r) compliant in the first place (assuming it could be imported as a complete unit). According to current BATF rules, a threaded muzzle AUTOMATICALLY disqualifies a rifle from import. This is why imported PSL's, which are otherwise completely identical to the military model, have to have the muzzle brake pinned on.
 
I lived in Florida for over 40 years and I never heard such a thing. FL is very gun friendly compaired to allot of states.I think this dealer is trying to line his pockets.
 
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