Legal Issue

[JeffGirard]

I'm moving into a university-affiliated* off-campus apartment complex. I was just looking over my contract and it said no use or possession of dangerous contraband including fireworks, firearms, etc.

First, can they legally do that?

Second, if so - Where would I be able to store it nearby?

*This is not a dormitory

 

[lacoochee]

It's completely legal. If you signed it you will have to abide by it or not. The consequences being of course they can terminate your lease plus penalties etc.

So now you have to ask yourself do I have roommates? Can I keep my mouth shut about what I own or don't own? If I can't will they?

In so far as where to store your firearms if you can't in your own place. Check with the campus police they may allow you to store your weapons with them the University of South Florida kept mine for and I checked them out when I went to the range etc.. If they won't check with the local PD or with your nearest range they might work something out with you. You could also check your local bank and rent a safety deposit box, you may need a large one any they can be pricey, you will have to check, they will also probably prohibit firearms as well, but they won;t check and they won't look over you shoulder when you get them out.

 

[gravis86]

Personally, if I saw no good reason for them to ban guns in the housing, I would take my money elsewhere.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Couldn't pay me to do business with anti-Second Amendment bigots.

 

[GlowinPontiac]

If I were you i would find somewhere else to live.

 

[strat81]

Firearms are "contraband"? Yeesh, what is this, Soviet Russia?

Anyway, depending on the roommate situation, I'd keep it around. Keep your mouth shut, don't leave it on the coffee table, and transport it discreetly to the range. I'd rather have gun when I need it than be a victim. Yes, if you need to defend yourself you would be in breech of contract but the worst they could do is kick you out and make you pay the balance of the lease. I'd rather pay off the lease than be dead.

I also question the validity of such rules and terms of a contract/lease. IIRC, hotels/motels cannot prohibit you from having guns inside. And if we draw a parallel to the first amendment, could you imagine the outrage if a university-owned apartment complex had a lease clause that said "No worshipping Allah, no yarmulkes, and no crosses/crucifixes"???

Be discreet, be safe.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

If the place is a good deal and livable, sign off and go about whatever business that is yours. The real question is what are the consequences if caught in violation of the agreement? Do you get booted from the school or face disipline or just get kicked out of your place.

You'll have to think about it---you could make a case for the change in policy, too---but you will have a hard road that way.

Many if not most university housing has some onerous boilerplate about 'thou shall not' that usually includes bulk alcohol, car batteries, and weapons.

 

[redranger1]

I would find another place. And also make up a sign to post in front of the complex that states that "the sheep residing in this complex are unprotected"

 

[wjustinen]

I am not a lawyer, but I do speak English

no use or possession of dangerous contraband

Lawfully possessed firearms hardly fit the definition of contraband. Therefor, it appears you have signed a contract that requires you to refrain from having or using unlawfully possessed firearms in your apartment.

Seems reasonable to me.

 

[40SW]

Its moraly and constitutionally reprehensible!!!!!, but unfortunatly since you are leasing their private property, they can do it legally. If I could back out of it contractually, I would ! I am not an attorney in real life or on TV, its my own opinion.

 

[buzz_knox]

Lawfully possessed firearms hardly fit the definition of contraband. Therefor, it appears you have signed a contract that requires you to refrain from having or using unlawfully possessed firearms in your apartment.

Actually, going by the limited amount of information provided, he signed a contract which defined contraband for purposes of the contract as including firearms. The contract precludes possession of lawful firearms and is likely enforceable.

 

[Cougfan2]

Unfortunately, if you've already signed the lease you are hosed. I lived in the dorm where I went to Kansas State. I actually broke my shotgun down and would transport it to and from my car in an old guitar case. There would have been hell to pay if they caught me I just made sure I never opened the case in my dorm room. It stayed in the closet.

 

[RPCVYemen]

The real question is what are the consequences if caught in violation of the agreement? Do you get booted from the school or face discipline or just get kicked out of your place.

This is sort of important. If you in fact subject to school discipline, and are tossed out of the university for the possession of firearms in violation of school policy, that might have consequences for your future education.

I am not a lawyer, but my guess is that if you are expelled from a college/university for a weapons violation, you had better be able to start a career with the education you have - because you ain't getting no more.

I can't imagine another university accepting a student who was tossed out of a university for gun possession in university affiliated housing.

Mike

 

[Father Knows Best]

You said:

I was just looking over my contract and it said no use or possession of dangerous contraband including fireworks, firearms, etc.

I would take the position that the contract doesn't ban the use or possession of firearms -- it just the bans the use or possession of "dangerous contraband", some of which may include fireworks, firearms, etc. Thus, "dangerous contraband" is banned, not "fireworks, firearms, etc." If a firework or firearm constitutes "dangerous contraband" then it is prohibited. So if you happen to have some 10" exploding star shells from a professional fireworks display, those would be "dangerous contraband" and would be prohibited, but if have some packages of firecrackers or sparklers that are legal to sell and possess in your state, then they are not "dangerous contraband" and are not prohibited, notwithstanding the fact that they are "fireworks."

The same would be true of firearms. If you have a firearm that is legal for you to possess, it would not be "dangerous contraband" and, therefore, would not be prohibited by your contract. Illegal unregistered machine guns, on the other hand, are prohibited.

I'm sure the wonks at the University wouldn't see it that way, but if the question is what your contractual obligations are, then I think that's a good argument. There is a rule of contract interpretation that says that any ambiguities are construed against the drafter. In this case, the University drafted the agreement, not you, so an ambiguous contract has to be read in a way that favors you and your rights.

 

[JeffGirard]

I don't have any other living options. This place is ideal in all other ways and is where my friends live. So I'm not looking to leave in search of a more reasonable place. The only response I got from the folks that run the apartment was this: "Unfortunately, we can't allow guns on our premises, including the apartments." I'm also not in a financial situation to fight it legally. So, it looks like I'm stuck with contacting the campus police or trying to find a range to store it.

 

[RPCVYemen]

So, it looks like I'm stuck with contacting the campus police or trying to find a range to store it.

I think that's a good call. I get the impression that many folks who responded may not have lived in a university environment for some time.

The key issue is not the contract - the contract matters not even in the slightest degree. The wording of the contract matters not even in the slightest degree.

The key issue is whether or not the housing falls under the domain of university discipline. If it does, then an infraction may throw you into the domain of the student judicial system.

In the student judicial system, you won't have a presumption of innocence, or be subject to written laws of any kind. You may be judged solely by the color of your skin and your gender - you can can guess what verdict is if you are white and male ( I can't tell your gender or race from your post, and I don't care, but that's all the student judiciary process may care about). I have had a student jurist tell me that the primary concern of the courts should be redressing the oppression of people of color by the patriarchal European overclass - and that it was reasonable and ethical to adjudicate cases basis solely on that basis!

The student judicial system would be laughable, if it didn't have so much power. They cannot imprison you. But they can get you expelled from the university (or advise the Chancellor to expel you). If that get on your transcript, good luck.

In general, it's hard to sue them, because you probably agreed to be bound by the student judiciary process as a condition of enrollment.

I think that you really,really do not want to get hauled up in front of a student kangaroo court on a weapons violation.

Mike

 

[JeffGirard]

I appreciate those posts that considered my wellbeing in addition to the issues at stake. I'm not looking to make any waves about this... I just want to shoot and store my gun legally. Do you think it'll be expensive? Can I trust a range to store it?

 

[Neo-Luddite]

A deposit box at a bank is good. Also, most university police on campuses banning weapons will store them--but be careful! Your gear and access to it will be subject to their rules and personalities. It depends on where you are. Ask for five minutes to speak to the head of the capus police or his/her designee--clear the air and see what they say about your situation.

Or, do what you must that is in your best interests. The most important thing to your safety is resposible room mates--don't tollerate any stupid balloney or lack of security precautions.

Good luck in school--I wish I could do it all over again (sometimes)!

-Mike

 

[goings_51]

Do you know anyone that lives off campus that might store them for you? Of course, make sure it is secure, they are responsible, etc. Just as a precaution, invest in some good trigerlocks - the type that take a real key.

When I was in the military, I rented a storage room for about $25/mo. You might even find someone to split the cost with you.