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Legal rifle sale?

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tkaction

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I know that I can sell a rifle face to face without an ffl in Pa. Can I sell it to a New York Resident who travels to me?
My thought is that this is not legal.
Tim
 
Correct. FTF sales are only legal between resident of the same state (provided FTF sales are legal in the first place, which in your case they are.)

The NY buyer is going to have to have the rifle transferred to him by a FFL, in order to be legal.
 
thanks, I dont know what made me think otherwise maybe the contiguious(sp) state thing.
 
dont know what made me think otherwise maybe the contiguious(sp) state thing.
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That's actually correct, excepting that the law requires that the out-of-state long gun be purchased from a dealer.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2009/aprqtr/27cfr478.29.htm

Sec. 478.29 Out-of-State acquisition of firearms by nonlicensees.

No person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector, shall transport into or receive
in the State where the person resides (or if a corporation or other
business entity, where it maintains a place of business) any firearm
purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State:
Provided, That the provisions of this section:
(a) Shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by
bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of
residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that
State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such
firearm in that State,
(b) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a rifle or
shotgun obtained from a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector in a State other than the
transferee's State of residence in an over-the-counter transaction at
the licensee's premises obtained in conformity with the provisions of
Sec. 478.96(c) and (c) Shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm
obtained in conformity with the provisions of Sec. Sec. 478.30 and
478.97.

[T.D. ATF-270, 53 FR 10493, Mar. 31, 1988]
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What makes your scenario illegal in the eyes of the Federales is that it's a FTF deal, not that it's an out-of-state deal. Oh, and bear in mind that NY has a licensing scheme for handguns but not long guns, so your scenario dodged that bullet.
 
Just to clarify the point, since this is a long gun (not a pistol) only one FFL is needed, FFL can be in PA, new owner can then walk away with new toy, no need for FFL etc in NYS.
 
tkaction said:
I know that I can sell a rifle face to face without an ffl in Pa. Can I sell it to a New York Resident who travels to me?
My thought is that this is not legal.
Tim
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What you ask is not legal.

Federal laws prohibits the transfer of firearms between residents of different states, unless the transfer is done through a FFL dealer in the buyer's state of residence. However, a rifle or shotgun can be transfered at a FFL dealer in the seller's state of residence, as long as the sale complies with both states' laws [18 USC 922(b)(3)].

Hypothetically, if the rifle was sold without the use of a FFL dealer...
Both the buyer and seller would commit Federal felonies.
The buyer would violate 18 USC 922(a)(3) and the seller would violate 18 USC 922(a)(5).


18 USC 922
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
 
Where is Navy LT when we need him ----------- again.
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Quiet appears to be the new NavyLT :D

BTW, anything have to do with contiguous states went away in 1986. There are still some state laws that have not been repealed that were enacted to comply with Federal law prior to 1986, but so long as those state laws do not specifically prohibit anything, they are now meaningless.
 
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