Legal Search Following residents across State Lines

[Master Blaster]

The Delaware State Police were following Delaware residents and surveilling them at a fireworks stand that is in Pennsylvania! I would like to know what law allows State police from one state to conduct surveillance in another without a warrant ( they couldnt possibly have one since they dont know who they are looking for)?

The bust is a misdemeanor and a $50 fine IIRC. You would think they have better things to do. I dont see how thie could be legal under DE or Pa law, or under federal law. This has serious implications for citizens if it sets the precident that the police can follow you to another state conduct surveillance without a warrant, and then arrest you for violating a law when you return to your state, ALL without probable cause needed to get a warrant.

Delaware State Police Make Fireworks Bust
WILMINGTON, Del (CBS 3) ―
On Tuesday July 1, 2008, the Delaware State Fire Marshal and Delaware State police entered into a joint project to prevent illegal fireworks from entering the state of Delaware.

Several officers from both departments were conducting a surveillance operation at various fireworks distributers in Pennsylvania. Several Delaware state residents were seen purchasing illegal fireworks from these locations and transporting the contraband across the border into Delaware.

In every instance, the suspect was apprehended and arrested for Possession of Fireworks. The fireworks were seized and will be destroyed.

http://cbs3.com/topstories/Fireworks.Delaware.State.2.763179.html

 

[Standing Wolf]

The bust is a misdemeanor and a $50 fine IIRC.

Never stand between a police chief and free money.

 

[MGshaggy]

They don't need a search warrant since what they're observing is in plain view and not within the a home or business. The activities they're observing in PA is something anyone could view - cars with Delaware tags on public roads and people going into and leaving a fireworks dealer with merchandise. You have no expectation of privacy for what you do out in the open. While the DSP have no jurisdiction or law enforcement power in PA they didn't use it. They only did what any person could do while they were in PA. Once they crossed the border, they had probable cause to believe a crime was in progress in their jurisdiction and could make an arrest.

 

[mbdolfin]

yea, i will tell you how the seized fireworks are destroyed

after you are arrested, fined and your fireworks are conficated... the state police take them home and light them off. i have a trooper that lives down the street from me and he has the biggest fireworks show every july 4 and new years. i am not talking small time either. big fireworks going off for over an hour.
NJ and DE state police have been doing survailence in PA fireworks stores for years. as soon as you cross over state lines they bust you. don't try buying any because you will get caught.

 

[FCFC]

Interesting question, Master Blaster. I wonder what the DSP and DSFM would say about it. Doesn't seem likely they would violate some jurisdiction or evidentiary constraint.

As MGshaggy points out, the DE guys seem to be simply observing in PA. Free country....

 

[DMF]

I would like to know what law allows State police from one state to conduct surveillance in another without a warrant

No warrant is required to observe activity that is viewable to the general public. If you are in a business open to the public and the cops watch you there, they don't need a warrant. If you leave your curtains open and the cops look into your house from the street, they don't need a warrant. Just a couple of examples.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

IBTL.

This happens along the ILL/IND border with the ILL police snooping on the IND side for some easy pickings. The best thing thus far for curtailing this nonsense has been alerting the authorities on the Indiana side about the activities.

 

[brickeyee]

The Virginia Alcohol Control Board guys tried this many years ago in Gerorgetown in Washington, DC.

The DC police finally ran them off at the stores prodding.
They had NO special standing in DC.

 

[FCFC]

Here's more information about how the "sting" worked.

I can't see that the DE LE would make the mistake of contaminating their case by doing something illegal. It seems that the PC being relied upon is the direct observation of loading the car with the fireworks. So, the observation in PA is directly the cause of any charge. Which means that the charge is no good if the observation isn't legal.

It seems that some of the more clever fireworks buyers knew what the deal was and just shook off the tail.



July 4, 2008


Five arrested, fireworks from Pa. seized

Officials crack down on smuggling into state

By TERRI SANGINITI
The News Journal

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080704/NEWS01/807040354

Five people were arrested and $1,000 in fireworks confiscated Tuesday in a crackdown on smuggling illegal fireworks over the state line, police said.

"Getting the word out that we're enforcing the violation is half the battle," said state police Cpl. Jeff Whitmarsh.

The use of all fireworks is banned in Delaware.

The five-hour sting was done Tuesday afternoon by state troopers and fire marshal deputies who went undercover to various fireworks distributors in Pennsylvania, where they saw people with Delaware plates put fireworks in their vehicles.

"The majority were coming down I-95 to Delaware," Chief Deputy Fire Marshal Alan Brown said. "The vehicles were tailed into Delaware and stopped by state fire marshal deputies."

Some people tried eluding capture by taking alternate routes out of Pennsylvania in rush-hour traffic.

"Illegal fireworks possession is only a ... misdemeanor," Whitmarsh said. "So we're not going to get into a vehicle chase with these individuals."

Arrested were: Josa Artzsiewica, 21; Christopher Joyce, 21, and Mark Lazarzzyk, 49, all of Wilmington; Kerri Baur, 39, of Claymont and Glenn Mandalas, 39, of Dover.

All five were cited for possession of illegal fireworks and released on a summons. Their fireworks were confiscated.

Anyone arrested with fireworks is subject to an automatic $25 fine for the first offense and $100 for each subsequent offense.

 

[divemedic]

That seems like a lot of work for a $25 fine. I bet they spent more in pay and gas than they took in through the fines.

 

[FCFC]

The total of fines is not the criterion of success.

"Getting the word out that [DSP is] enforcing the violation" is the goal. The extent to which they do that is the measure of success.

 

[Czar]

I have a stupid "what if" question.

I'm assuming they use the same brown paper bags and/or boxes for fireworks out there that they use in Wyoming and for what little there is in Colorado. If a DE resident went to the PA fireworks stand appeared to purchase and took and empty bag/box/whatever to their car, loaded up, and went back into DE, what are the legalities involved with any stop under the suspicion of having illegal fireworks? Would it just be a looked guilty, but had an empty bag - you're free to go?

We used to do something similar in college but taking a non-direct trip back to CO from WY seemed to keep us out of trouble.

 

[Coronach]

Completely devoid of guns.