Legality of putting an M16 bolt carrier in an AR15
- Thread starter glock56534
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Don't Tread On Me
Member
M16 carrier is no problem.
1. There's an BATFE letter that says so.
2. My Colt came with one from the factory. If it illegal to have one, then the FFL couldn't transfer it to me.
3. Regardless of all of the above, the M16 carrier, on its own, does not make the weapon a machinegun. Not even if other parts fail. Yeah, it will cost you a fortune to debunk the prosecution's nonsense in court, and it is dangerous to count on the intelligence of a jury ...but the law is the law - M16 carrier does not make an AR-15 into a machinegun.
If it did, the BATFE would consider the carrier itself a machinegun. That's how they treat all other instances. Then again, don't count on BATFE consistency either.
Bottom line: Don't sweat it. Not because of what I've said, but because if the BATFE is out to get you - they'll get you. It's been PROVED that they deliberately modify weapons to make them illegal to get convictions. With thugs like them hiding behind a badge, you have nothing to worry about from an M16 carrier. Nothing can stop them from removing your disconnecter or shortening your barrel. Think that flash hider is welded on well enough? Even to the BATFE's specs? They will take a 3 foot pipe wrench to it. Or they'll drill, grind or modify the gun using power tools and machine shop tools and claim it was "readily" convertible to full-auto. They'll find the softest primers on Earth, load ammo and call the slam-fires "full auto" ....plenty of 100% proved, real world examples. None of what I say is made up.
If you're in their sights. You lose. "Always Think Forfeiture" is their own self-admitted motto. They'll take away what you have, and then good luck owning anything to put up as collateral for a defense. Then good luck getting a competent public defender. And if you are fortunate to actually win in court against the odds ...well, your life is destroyed. You will own nothing, your savings will be gone. You'll be in massive debt.
The bright side is, you'll still be alive.
1. There's an BATFE letter that says so.
2. My Colt came with one from the factory. If it illegal to have one, then the FFL couldn't transfer it to me.
3. Regardless of all of the above, the M16 carrier, on its own, does not make the weapon a machinegun. Not even if other parts fail. Yeah, it will cost you a fortune to debunk the prosecution's nonsense in court, and it is dangerous to count on the intelligence of a jury ...but the law is the law - M16 carrier does not make an AR-15 into a machinegun.
If it did, the BATFE would consider the carrier itself a machinegun. That's how they treat all other instances. Then again, don't count on BATFE consistency either.
Bottom line: Don't sweat it. Not because of what I've said, but because if the BATFE is out to get you - they'll get you. It's been PROVED that they deliberately modify weapons to make them illegal to get convictions. With thugs like them hiding behind a badge, you have nothing to worry about from an M16 carrier. Nothing can stop them from removing your disconnecter or shortening your barrel. Think that flash hider is welded on well enough? Even to the BATFE's specs? They will take a 3 foot pipe wrench to it. Or they'll drill, grind or modify the gun using power tools and machine shop tools and claim it was "readily" convertible to full-auto. They'll find the softest primers on Earth, load ammo and call the slam-fires "full auto" ....plenty of 100% proved, real world examples. None of what I say is made up.
If you're in their sights. You lose. "Always Think Forfeiture" is their own self-admitted motto. They'll take away what you have, and then good luck owning anything to put up as collateral for a defense. Then good luck getting a competent public defender. And if you are fortunate to actually win in court against the odds ...well, your life is destroyed. You will own nothing, your savings will be gone. You'll be in massive debt.
The bright side is, you'll still be alive.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
It is even worse than that because forfeiture is a civil suit not a criminal suit. So you don't get a public defender and you don't have to be found guilty of the crime to lose your stuff.
What we really need is for the new NRA bill in the House to pass. It already has 219 sponsors and mandates written inspection standards so that ATF cannot monkey about with rifles as they have in the past.
It is illegal in some locales because the powers that be decide it is illegal.
I really think quite a few quys have the heavy semi-auto bolt carrier in their rifles and THINK they have a full auto carrier.
I have yet to see a Colt LLC semi auto AR15 come into the shop with a full auto carrier installed.
This is in Illinois and maybe distributors repackage the guns for sale in other states, I don't know.
The guys that allow us to watch them tear through the vapor paper and plastic bag to have a look at the bolt carrier think we are nuts.
I really think quite a few quys have the heavy semi-auto bolt carrier in their rifles and THINK they have a full auto carrier.
I have yet to see a Colt LLC semi auto AR15 come into the shop with a full auto carrier installed.
This is in Illinois and maybe distributors repackage the guns for sale in other states, I don't know.
The guys that allow us to watch them tear through the vapor paper and plastic bag to have a look at the bolt carrier think we are nuts.
Uhhhhh. No. That means nothing. It is only illegal to put parts into the AR15 that would cause it to fire full auto. A bolt carrier is not one of those parts. DPMS is just playing it safe with their wording.
Colt has already cleared this up with the ATF. I think I will go with what the ATF and Colt say rather than some random person on the internet. Anyone who says it is illegal is saying so because they either have no clue (like most internet wannabe lawyers) or they are just playing it safe. Some factory rifles come with the M16 carrier in it! If you buy a Colt, guess what? It has an m16 carrier in it. Illegal? I think not.
The only argument that would make sense is that it's just one more thing that could cause a problem with some idiot lawyer someday. It might take a bit more explaining if you had a malfunction that caused your gun to fire automatically....but that doesn't make it illegal. I'm unaware of any state in which Colt cannot sell their products solely due to the style of bolt carrier that is in them.
I should add that I really don't know if they change their carrier depending on where they sell it. I should also add that I'm not sure if some local laws might specifically mention adding ANY parts from an m16 in them. As far as the ATF goes, we're all set though.
cracked butt
Member
Tinfoil hat time: maybe its a conspiracy perpetuated by DPMS to sell more of their bolt carriers. A good reason to use a M-16 bolt carrier would be in a target rifle. The M16 carrier has quite a bit more mass than the AR-15 carrier. The extra mass slows the bolt carrier down and allows the bolt to remain locked a tiny fraction of a second longer- supposedly giving a slight edge in accuracy. The way DPMS carriers are machined, they are about the 1/2 way point between a M16 and a standard AR-15 carrier weight-wise.
If you use a M16 bolt carrier, just keep the information to yourself. No need to go bragging about it while shooting it at the local Fish and Game club where there are probably a lot of people who hate black guns and would turn you in in a heartbeat if you had any of the eeevil M16 machine stuff on the inside.(See Olafson)
Gentlemen, I am going to be brutally honest here,,,,,,,,
DPMS Bolts and Bolt Carriers suck, they really do.
I feel exactly the same way about Bushmaster bolt carriers though the bolts they offer aren't bad at all.
If I could have my way, I would install M16 bolt carriers in every AR15 rifle floating around simply to, well, simplify my job as a gunsmith.
Wanting and getting are two very different things.
+1 on if you have a 16BC, don't go talking it up to everybody you meet, most people don't care, some will express more than the usual bored interest and plain and simple, bragging about a gun part is just plain weird.
DPMS Bolts and Bolt Carriers suck, they really do.
I feel exactly the same way about Bushmaster bolt carriers though the bolts they offer aren't bad at all.
If I could have my way, I would install M16 bolt carriers in every AR15 rifle floating around simply to, well, simplify my job as a gunsmith.
Wanting and getting are two very different things.
+1 on if you have a 16BC, don't go talking it up to everybody you meet, most people don't care, some will express more than the usual bored interest and plain and simple, bragging about a gun part is just plain weird.
B.D. Turner
Member
The M-16 bolt carrier alone will not convert any AR-15 to a machine gun.
I have seen many AR's built from mixed AR and M parts that will malfunction.
I have seen many AR's built from mixed AR and M parts that will malfunction.
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