Less lethal rounds.

[nfl1990]

Have any of you had any expierance with less lethal shotgun ammo? (ie:rubber buckshot, rubber rockets, beanbags, pepper loads)
If you did, how effective were they?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jeff White]

A quick search will bring up a lot of information:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=160252
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=148099
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=121793
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=17472
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=17641
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=596

My experience with less lethal shotgun rounds is that they are a specialized tool for use by law enforcement, they are always backed up by someone else with lethal force. If you're going to point a firearm at someone, you are using lethal force no matter what your shotgun is loaded with.

Jeff

 

[L-2]

http://sageinternationalltd.com/sco/tactical/ammo.html
I've used the rounds, above, shot through the weapon, below.
http://sageinternationalltd.com/si/sl6.html

I don't or can't recommend the less-lethal shotgun-type rounds for a number of reasons. Less lethal is a very volatile, changing area. As an example of what less-lethal involves, review the similar controversies regarding Taser-related deaths, which are in the news lately.

 

[nfl1990]

The reason why I'm looking into them is mostly leagal, I have heard it looks better if you use a less lethal round first because even if it kills the attacker it shows that you tried to prevent death.

 

[Preacherman]

nfl, that's a dangerous assumption. If you fire your weapon, you will be judged on whether the circumstances were such as to justify you in firing. If they weren't (i.e. no immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death and/or serious injury to yourself and/or someone under your care), you're toast, whether or not the round you fired was less-than-lethal. The long and the short of it is, firing a weapon is, by definition, the use of lethal force, and the law will regard it in that light: so, if you are justified in shooting, the load you use won't count in the eyes of the law. Therefore, I'd use a round most likely to ensure my safety - and a less-than-lethal round isn't optimum for that, I'm afraid.

 

[dfariswheel]

A key rule of self defense:
NEVER, EVER, NEVER count on getting more then ONE shot.

Bad things happen. The gun jams, the ammo misfires, the bad guy gets off a lucky shot, a meteor comes through the roof and knocks the gun from your hand, etc.

You'll be lucky to get off one good shot, and since you cannot be certain of getting even that one, you BETTER make it an effective one.

Legally, if it's serious enough to fire a gun at someone, it doesn't matter if it's a cotton ball, or an armor piercing round from an elephant gun.

If legally it's serious enough to shoot someone, it legally doesn't matter if they live or die.

If it's NOT that serious, shooting a cotton ball is WRONG.

To quote famous Border Patrolman Bill Jordan:
"Like being slightly pregnant, there's no such thing as shooting someone "just a little bit. If you HAVE to shoot someone, shoot them GOOD".

"Less lethal" ammo is ONLY for use by the police when they are backed up by lethal ammo, and the situation is such that they think they can take a chance.

For a home owner to use it is suicidal.

Imagine this situation:
It's 3:00am in your front room.
You confront an armed intruder, you "give him a break" by shooting a less lethal round.
It fails to stop him, and for some reason you aren't able to fire another shot, lethal or not.

You're now facing a armed intruder who sure isn't going to be happy, and who ISN'T going to be giving you and your family "a break".

Only a fool counts on getting multiple shots in a real encounter.

 

[Roadwild17]

I've got some rubber buck for my 20 to take care of stray dogs (I love out in the country). Other than that my shotty stays loaded with 1 oz slugs, the lethal kind. Even if the box says 'less than lethal" at a few yards away it's still every capable of being lethal, so why not just shoot the real stuff to start off with?

 

[mattdus]

less lethal rounds can be lethal if not used properly. You can only shoot from a certain distance without a major risk of death. even at "appropriate" range they can be lethal. I know of one instance where an inmate in a major correctional institution was shot at with these types of rounds, he was hit in the leg and the small rubber shot penetrated the skin deep enough that a center mass shot would likely have been deadly.

 

[Manedwolf]

The reason why I'm looking into them is mostly leagal, I have heard it looks better if you use a less lethal round first because even if it kills the attacker it shows that you tried to prevent death.

Personally, I'd rather need a lawyer than a eulogy.

And the only "less lethal" I have isn't loaded in it, I just have a box of blanks in case I ever have need to disperse a crowd (possible looters, etc), since an over-their-head shot doesn't work as well when there's other buildings around for it to hit.