lever action carbine

[bad LT]

I am curently in the market for a short barelled lever action carbine. I view this weapon as sort of a general "around and about" rifle capable of decisivly hitting animals up to the size of a deer out to 150-175 yards. As I want a short, compact weapon, it will most likely be in a 16 inch barrel configuration. Which of the following would fit the above criterion best?

1. 30/30 - While usually considered the quintisential deer rifle, I am I little worried at the loss of velocity out of such a short barrel. However it is a proven, readilly available caliber that should not have any problem chambering in a lever action mechanism.

2. 44 Mag - This should be a very potent little rifle and has the added benifit of being a "high capicity lever action" I am however a little concerened over the trajectory of bullets with low balistic coefficients as well as the rellibily of a strait walled cartrige in a lever action mechanism.

3. 357 Magnum - The main advantage of this choice is the ability to shoot cheap 38 special ammo for plinking. However it suffers the same liabilities of the 44 Mag (low B.C. and strait walled cartrige) carbine while offering less power.

While I am mainly looking for balistic data for 16 inch barreled versions of these weapons, any input would be welcome.

 

[Preacherman]

I have lever-action carbines in all three calibers. A few pointers:

1. The .30-30 is really not at its best in a 16" barrel. You need 20", or even 24", to take advantage of its velocity. So, if you're set on a 16" barrel, I'd leave the .30-30 off your list of calibers. However, it's also the round with the best performance in the 125-175 yard range bracket (certainly superior to the two Magnum loads), so if shooting at that range is important to you, I'd recommend going for a 20" carbine in .30-30.

2. The .44 Magnum, out of a 16" barrel, is at least equal to the .30-30 in actual, observed performance on deer, with the exception of its ballistics at longer ranges. I use my Marlin 1894 (20" barrel) with great confidence out to 100-125 yards. Beyond that range, the trajectory is more "rainbow-like", making it more difficult (but by no means impossible) to get quick, accurate hits on target without adjusting your sights (assuming you're using open sights). I actually prefer the .44 Magnum cartridge for all-round use, but I deliberately limit my shots to 125 yards or less. If you want to shoot out to 175 yards, the .30-30 is a better choice.

3. The .357 Magnum is a marginal choice for deer hunting, even with the added velocity given by a carbine-length barrel. It will certainly do the job if you put the bullet in the right place, but it's significantly down on energy compared to the .30-30 or .44 Magnum. I would not be comfortable using this for deer at ranges greater than 50-75 yards. As for shooting out to 175 yards, the energy on impact would have dropped to a level that I would consider inhumane for use on deer.

I've not had any feeding problems with .357 Magnum or .44 Magnum rounds, so I don't think you need to worry overmuch about this. However, if you plan on using the shorter .44 Special and/or .38 Special rounds, some lever-action mechanisms don't like them at all. If you want to use such rounds, I'd strongly recommend the Marlin over the Winchester or Rossi, because the Marlin has historically been able to handle them better.

Hope this helps.

 

[oneshooter]

Do you reload. This would let you custom load to get better performance from the short barrell. Also have you thought about the 454Casul in a lever gun?

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[MrMurphy]

What Preacherman said.

I just got a .44 Mag Marlin as an all-around utility/anti-bobcat/lynx/coyote/mountain lion/wild pig/bad guy rifle and with 10 shots in a 20" barreled package, it's fast and compact with a good hard hitting round with a lot of shots just in case.

However, I know 100-125 yards is the max for it, and I'm fine with that. Anything further and I have bolt guns.

I prefer the "swing" and general balance of the 20" models, I don't find the extra 4" makes much difference for me in maneuvering them out of cars, through doors, etc. But then I'm used to an M16 or AK, and they're similar in size.

 

[Mannlicher]

badLT, the lever gun is pretty darn good at full filling your desire for a 'walk around' rifle. It should be noted though, that of the three calibers you mentioned, none are really good for the ranges you say you would like to be shooting at.
Reduce your estimated range to 100 yards, and then the 30/30 and the .44 Mag appear quite suited. I feel the .357 is odd man out here.
If you really need to be shooting something out to 175 yards, then I feel you need to go with a different caliber. The Browning, or Winchester 88 lever guns chambered in .358, .308, or some similar caliber really are better choices for those longer ranges.

 

[Preacherman]

Mannlicher, I'd respectfully disagree that the .30-30 isn't suitable for the range in question. Remington shows that with a 150-yard zero, their 150gr. and 170gr. loads for the .30-30 are less than 2" high at 100 yards, and less than 5" low at 200 yards. This is a perfectly adequate trajectory for a 175-yard range, IMHO. The .308 will indeed be flatter, but not by more than 3" or so over the trajectory involved. The .30-30 will also have more than enough energy at 175 yards for a deer-type target (over 1,000 fpe with the 170gr. bullet).

 

[Gordon]

I agree with Preacherman but want to add: A light .44 mag carbine starts to have a pretty good kick. To me it is similar to a 30-06. The 30-30 has less kick, and actually a 16" barrel works pretty good in this caliber. Both magnum pistol rounds get a TREMENDOUS boost in Velocity/energy witht the longer carbine barrel. I like the .357 for HD the best, a 158 grain Remington hollow point at 1800fps in an 18" marlin 94 is a REAL serious killer of thin skined critters under 75 yards and up to 300 pounds. Very similar to a 150 grain 30-30 load at 2000 fps from the same barrel length! The 240 grain .44 mag at 1700 from a 18" marlin actually has a little too much recoil for me to deliver fast follow ups, but maybe I'm a sissy!

 

[Preacherman]

Good point on the recoil of the .44 Magnum in a carbine, Gordon. I overcame it in two ways:

1. I use a Marlin in that caliber, which has a slightly "fatter" stock, spreading the recoil over more of my shoulder. I've fired a Winchester and a Rossi in the same caliber, and both of them hurt rather more than the Marlin.

2. I fitted a decent recoil pad to the Marlin, rather than the hard plastic plate that came fitted as standard. This reduced felt recoil by at least a third.

With those two points taken care of, I find the .44 Magnum recoil is nicely tamed.

 

[McCall911]

And .44 Magnum lever action carbines are IMO so much fun to plink with using .44 Specials that I almost want to feel guilty!

 

[shoot870p]

Marlin .44

my Marlin has not had feeding problems but it is really a short-range weapon. Very handy in brush.
Lee

 

[bad LT]

Thank you all for your responses. So the general consensus seems to be that if I am going to get a 16 inch carbine I should get one in 44 magnum and limit myself to 100-125 yard shots. If I want a 175 yard lever action then I should get a 20 inch 30/30. I guess it is a quesion of compactness or range. I guess it is off to the gunstore to handle (fondle) some more guns

P.S.

If I were to leave a lever action loaded for a long period of time should I be concerned about spring fatigue in the magazine?

 

[Preacherman]

Yes, if you leave it fully loaded, you'll certainly get spring fatigue in due course. I load to 2/3 capacity if I expect to leave the gun loaded for any length of time: in a Marlin 1894, in .44 Magnum, that means I load 6 rounds, or in a Marlin 336 in .30-30, I load 3 rounds.

 

[JNewell]

Wasn't mentioned in your post, but I find the .30-30s, especially the Win 94 with its very slim buttstock, smacks me around more than the Trapdoor factory loads in a Marlin Guide Gun, which is a very handy carbine.

 

[MrMurphy]

You might be able to get a Wolff Gunsprings "extra power" spring if you plan on leaving it fully loaded for some time.