light 30.06 for whitetail

[zchaparral]

My kids have been practicing with .223 all summer at fifty yards training for deer season. My boy is eleven and my girl is nine. Needless to say; although they love to shoot, 30.06 is a bit much for them. Is there a lighter load for this cartridge that would be more suitable for whitetail than a well loaded .223?

 

[newfalguy101]

Use the .223 with appropriate bullets.

You could also, I suppose download 125-130 gr bullets in the -06, however, its still going to kick harder than the .223.

Depending on what part of the country you are in AND state laws, the .223 may be a good option

 

[rcmodel]

If you reload there sure is!
https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895 Reduced Rifle Loads.pdf

If you don't
There is this, this, & this if you can find it somewhere.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/35...-grain-core-lokt-pointed-soft-point-box-of-20

http://www.hornady.com/store/CustomLite

http://www.eabco.com/store/ammunition/federal-fusion-lite-low-recoil-30-06-170-gr.-20/

rc

 

[maxxhavoc]

H4895 is a very stable powder, and it can be used in light loads:
https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf

You still know you're shooting it, but it takes the edge off, 60% power in a 30-06 125gr is still more than .223.

 

[sage5907]

The Speer loading manual shows a 30-06 starting load with a 150 grain bullet of 42 grains of H 4895 for a velocity of about 2400 fps. Very close to a 30-30 150 grain load. Good for beginning deer hunters. This load would be a little more lethal than the 125 bullet in post #4.

 

[dprice3844444]

you can get a 6.8 upper for the ar-15 or 300 black or just google 223 load for deer

 

[ArchAngelCD]

H4895 is a very stable powder, and it can be used in light loads:
https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf

You still know you're shooting it, but it takes the edge off, 60% power in a 30-06 125gr is still more than .223.

I have loaded and shot the Hodgdon H4895 reduced loads and they are everything they advertize. They are light loads yet still accurate. A 125gr bullet from the 30-06 at reduced velocity is probably a good choice.

If the light 30-06 ammo is still too much for the 9 year-old you might try a heavy premium bullet in the .223 instead. Maybe a 70gr Hornady GMX bullet @~2850/2900 fps or better yet a 75gr Swift bullet @~2800/2850 fps.

Are there any other choices in rifles for the children other than the .223 and 30-06? Is it possible you can get a hold of a .243 Win or a light loaded 30-30 for the hunt? Your 11 year-old should have no problems firing the .243 Win accurately.

 

[TenDriver]

Many a whitetail have been killed with factory Winchester 55 gr soft points in 223.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Many a whitetail have been killed with factory Winchester 55 gr soft points in 223.

I'm sure they have but when you are talking about a new shooter who is only 9 years old too many things can go wrong with such a light bullet in the .223. If the shot is not perfect you will have an unethical shoot on your hands and no one wants that.

 

[41 Mag]

The fit of the rifle will have a lot to do with how tey feel the recoil. That said unless your willing to cut the stock down, or pick up a donor stock to whittle on, the reduced loads for the '06 would be the best route on that one.

If you load your own, then the Hodgdon load data is your best resource for putting together something not only accurate but very tolerable by the kiddo's.

Personally I would lean towards something like the Speer or Barnes 130gr bullets. I have used the 125gr Nosler BT out of my .308 when my grandson was just a tot, and while they shot great and DID put his first hog down on the spot they didn't fully penetrate a smallish coyote at 150yds. We switched over to the 130gr Barnes and went on with out business with no issues after that. I would think it would be a better bullet to use int he '06 due to being a bit longer in length than some of the others, you might get a bit better accuracy. If you get them into the 2300 - 2500fps range they are great and recoil is not much at all. My .308 weighs 6.5# ready to hunt with a full magazine, and the grandson was shooting more than I could afford to buy at the ripe ol age of 5 using a 42gr load of H-4895. We started him out with around 37grs and the 125's and worked it up a little at a time. He moved on up into full 150gr loads by the time he was 7. He's 12 now and giggles when he shoots my Sendero in 7mm STW.

With the .223 there are more options nowadays than only a few years ago for actual hunting bullets. Just make sure when your looking you don't pick up something designed for a faster twist rate than your using in your rifle. The heavier the bullet the faster the twist needed. That said there are a couple of bullets which are shorter than others simply due to their construction and no plastic tip. If I were looking into these I would try and find something around 60grs with a lead tip and nothing at all with plastic on them.

Good luck and hope that helps.

 

[illinoisburt]

Given the kids have been practicing with a 223, it might be good idea to have them use it for deer season rather than switching over to a more powerful rifle just before the season. The additional kick and muzzle blast along with "bigger gun" perception may create difficulties that result in a bad shot. Probably the best 223 deer load that is commonly available right now is the 62 grain federal fusion. It was specifically designed for deer hunting and is reasonably priced.

 

[rbernie]

Consider this another vote for the Hodgdon Youth Load data, assuming rifle fit has been addressed already. I've used the H4895 reduced load data extensively and find it highly satisfying in recoil and performance.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Zchaparal;
You didn't list where you are.
Deer in Florida and S. Texas are a different "critter" than those in the upper mid-west.
The deer in Florida and other parts of the south may run to not much over 150lbs (if that big!). Whereas deer in the upper mid-west can easily top 300lbs for a mature buck.

I've shot over 200 deer in the last 30yrs with the .22Hornet, .223, and .22-250. However, the were mostly does taken during culling operations.

If you don't reload and your deer don't run over 200lbs, the .223 with most any SOFT POINT load 55gr or heavier will do fine. No need for uber-expensive ultra-premium bullets which may not perform any differently than a FMJ.

If you are in Iowa, Indiana, Kansas or such where the deer can get very large, then the reduced recoil or as Remington calls them "Managed" recoil loads are a better choice.

I've killed a lot of deer with the 7.62x39 using 125gr Sierra's as well as 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tips, as well as 130gr Speer HP' and FP's.
At reduced .30/06 load velocities they do very well.
The Remington 125gr CorLokt Managed recoil load has an enviable reputation in my area.

All three of a friends daughters took their first deer with a T/C Contender Carbine in .223. All have been one-shot kills. However, the girls had shot the gun a LOT and I was loading him Hornady 55gr SoftPoint over 27.0gr of BL-C2 for around 3,000fps from the "Carbine".
I personally prefer the 63gr Sierra SemiPtd Spt and 65gr Sierra GameKing. A close third is the 60gr Hornady PtSpt. These all are strongly constructed bullets and I've never seen one break-up and fail to penetrate.

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement....

 

[mgmorden]

you can get a 6.8 upper for the ar-15 or 300 black or just google 223 load for deer

For the price of a new upper you could buy a budget bolt action in .243 (which will be appropriate in any load).

If you're going to save money, I'd personally opt for a downloaded .30-06. If you can get it down to .30-30 territory it shouldn't be bad at all - particularly given that the average .30-06 rifle is heavier than the average .30-30 so it should soak up a bit more recoil.

 

[zchaparral]

They are both fitted to separate ar's. I just recently started wondering , after I noticed how well my eleven year old fits into my old 30.06 bolt action carbine, if a downloaded round would be a better option. I have never downloaded a round or studied them. After reading your posts I have decided to remain the course which is loading some 62 grain bonded soft point to the max ( which has gotten great feedback for whitetail). In the mean time I'm going to download some 30.06 and take my boy out shooting. Then I'll take it from there. Thanks to all, very helpful. Man, that .243 sounds like a great idea after this season. I have a six year old yet!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

They are both fitted to separate ar's. I just recently started wondering , after I noticed how well my eleven year old fits into my old 30.06 bolt action carbine, if a downloaded round would be a better option. I have never downloaded a round or studied them. After reading your posts I have decided to remain the course which is loading some 62 grain bonded soft point to the max ( which has gotten great feedback for whitetail). In the mean time I'm going to download some 30.06 and take my boy out shooting. Then I'll take it from there. Thanks to all, very helpful. Man, that .243 sounds like a great idea after this season. I have a six year old yet!

I think that's a good idea. A downloaded 125gr or 130gr bullet for the 30-06 ammo for your son since the rifle fits him well and a premium bullet loaded in the .223 for your daughter. It sounds like a plan.

BTW, I did a little research and found that Nosler makes a 60gr .224" Partition bullet which is a tough bullet and probably one of the best choices for the .223 Deer load. I think it might be a third choice to add to the other 2 I mentioned in my above post. (although the two bullets I listed above will carry more energy to the target)

 

[zchaparral]

AA, I've looked at the partition but it has no cannelure ( which I like to have). There are plenty other good ones though.

 

[SlowFuse]

On the above post, The Federal Vital Shok 60 grain partition did well on at least one Alabama whitetail before I started handloading. That would be a good factory choice if you can find it. Runs just over 3000 fps out of a 16" barreled AR-15.

 

[Savage99]

I think 11 and 9 are too young to hunt safely with firearms.

Also the 223 is too small for big game and not humane let alone legal in most places for that reason.

There are "managed" recoil loads made for the 30-06.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I think 11 and 9 are too young to hunt safely with firearms.

Also the 223 is too small for big game and not humane let alone legal in most places for that reason.

There are "managed" recoil loads made for the 30-06.

I think you are 100% incorrect to make a blanket statement that 9 & 11 year olds are too young to safely hunt. Especially with the 11 year old, why is that too young? Every child is different. There are 11 year olds who are very responsible and 16 year olds who are extremely childish. I know the Liberal world thinks guns are evil and children should not be near guns but that doesn't make it true. Ridiculous!

The OP reloads so why in the world should he buy factory "managed recoil" loads? He can just as easily load his own that are just as good or better than the factory ammo.

I do however have my worries about using a .223 for Deer but it has been done. Personally I would stick with a .243 Win, 30-30 or low recoil .308 or 30-06 ammo but I answered the questions as asked. (and suggested the .243 Win too)

 

[Kachok]

The 06 can be loaded down to 30-30 levels and it would be a light kicker no doubt, just make sure to use a readily expanding bullet to match the lower impact speeds, some bullets do not function all that well at low impact speeds while others shine. The A-Max bullet has a reputation for good expansion at speeds as low as 1400fps and the softer open country bullets such as the SGK, Speer BTSP and Nosler Ballistic Tip perform well at impact speeds as low as 1800fps with the Speer probably being the softest of that bunch.
If you don't reaload I would suggest getting the 125gr Remington Managed Recoil loads or buying a more ideal low recoil rifle, I started out with a 243 back in the day which was plenty suitable and often the smallest legal caliber for deer hunting, lately I discovered the 7mm-08 which is a very good low recoil cartridge, hardly more kick then a 243 and considerably better penetration and impact. Factory 120gr are moving about 3000fps and have remarkably low recoil, of my rifles only my 6.5x55 kicks less.

 

[Savage99]

Nine year old kills instructor:

http://www.wbay.com/story/26375754/officials-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-instructor

gun goes out of control

 

[rbernie]

Thank goodness most kids don't hunt with an fully automatic Uzi.

Sheesh....

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Nine year old kills instructor:

http://www.wbay.com/story/26375754/officials-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-instructor

gun goes out of control

Really??? You point to a 9 year old with a full auto Uzi to make your point.
I'm done here before I say something that will get me in trouble. RIDICULOUS squared!

 

[Kachok]

My dad tough me to shoot at age 5, I don't think 9 is too young so long as the child understands the importance of safety first, if you don't think they get that then wait until they are older, oh and a fully automatic Uzi is a stupid example, no reasonable person is going to put a weapon like that in the hands of a child and expect them to control it, not that it has anything to do with a hunting rifle anyway.