light 30.06 for whitetail

[Mule]

If they were my kids, and they wanted to hunt, they would hunt, sitting next to me the whole time. That's what parents are for. If they have no interest in hunting, I don't make them go.

Several of my kids have used the 223 successfully. I am always with them the first couple of seasons and I approve the shots before the safety comes off.

We have also taken Missouri Whitetails with the 60 gr Partition and 65 gr Sierra Game King. Another bullet also found effective is the Winchester 64 gr Power Point.

I have used the Hodgdon "Youth Load data" to build 30-06 and 243 ammo for family member. They have brought home the venison.

 

[mgmorden]

Nine year old kills instructor:

http://www.wbay.com/story/26375754/officials-girl-accidentally-kills-gun-instructor

gun goes out of control

You're employing the same tactics the anti's use - point to a rare tragedy, assume its the norm, and then declare the whole activity too dangerous to attempt.

I'd wager that most people here who hunt were hunting by those ages. I started hunting around 8 years old myself and killed my first deer at 9.

 

[4895]

If you can't afford to purchase a .243 Winchester or similar caliber I recommend the Remington reduced recoil ammo. If you want to load it yourself, I have found that a 125 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip with 45 grains of H-4895 works well together. It has its limits around 250 yards, but zero it for 200 yards and it should have a 4" arch out to 200. I think it drops about 6" at 250 yards and slows to 1900 fps which is right at the envelope Nosler recommends as lowest fps required for bullet performance. That should work for you. Kicks like a .243.

P.S. I did work up some loads over a chrony so YMMV. I think Hodgdon starts around 40.5 grains of powder for the 125 grain pill, and I think the recoil may be a bit much for anyone under 75 pounds of body weight. Only one way to find out.

 

[41 Mag]

I think 11 and 9 are too young to hunt safely with firearms.

Also the 223 is too small for big game and not humane let alone legal in most places for that reason.

I guess my grandson dropping his first hog two weeks before his "4th" birthday is simply horrendous,

Oh and him being able to even go, had everything to do with him not only being able to hold the rifle by himself, but also to be able to effectively work the action and the safety in the proper manners. I might be a bit lenient on some things, but safety, his, mine, or for/towards someone else, is not one of them.

As to the .223, and hunting, I have seen so much to the contrary in the past 6-8 years, I'm not even going to comment.

Apologies to the OP and hope things work out well for you and yours...

 

[gspn]

I think you are 100% incorrect to make a blanket statement that 9 & 11 year olds are too young to safely hunt. Especially with the 11 year old, why is that too young? Every child is different. There are 11 year olds who are very responsible and 16 year olds who are extremely childish. I know the Liberal world thinks guns are evil and children should not be near guns but that doesn't make it true. Ridiculous!

The OP reloads so why in the world should he buy factory "managed recoil" loads? He can just as easily load his own that are just as good or better than the factory ammo.

I do however have my worries about using a .223 for Deer but it has been done. Personally I would stick with a .243 Win, 30-30 or low recoil .308 or 30-06 ammo but I answered the questions as asked. (and suggested the .243 Win too)

I agree whole-heartedly with every word of that post. It is full of experience and wisdom. I'd write more but he said it all.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

I think there are good arguments for both the .223 and the 30-06. Rather than rehash these I would like to mention the following.

Hunting for me has a massive confidence factor so I would NOT change the rifle at this point. Despite my reservations on the calibre for deer. I am assuming that they are shooting well, having been practicing.

The 30-06 as a rifle may be too heavy as it is on a larger action.

Get the heaviest bullet you can and make it a premium bullet.

Good luck

 

[Salmoneye]

The 06 can be loaded down safely with many powders using cast bullets...

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

My go to for any reduced rifle (or revolver) loads is Red Dot...

This article by C. E. Harris on 'the' reduced load with Red Dot may also be of interest:

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html

 

[jmr40]

I'd let the kid use the 223 as long as it is legal in your area. Very few places where rifles are legal and 223 ain't.

But if you feel more comfortable with reduced 30-06 loads that is certainly an option. I don't recall the exact load, but loaded some 150's down to around 2500 fps for my niece a few years ago when she was about the same age. My brother said they worked just fine for her. Recoil was a bit more than 30-30 on paper, but the much better stock style on the bolt gun vs 30-30 lever was actually more comfortable to shoot.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

41 Mag,
That is a great picture of your grandson. The look on his face is priceless!
Good on you passing on our passion for shooting and hunting. God Bless America!

 

[Dudedog]

Way to go 41 mag, that looks like a happy boy.
(nice looking hog as well)

IMO age is not a factor within reason.

Is the child physically capable of what is necessary?
Can they be serious and focused?
Is proper supervision provided?
Have they been taught, trained and taught some more?
Safety is the key factor.

Providing a full auto UZI to a nine year old IMO was not a real smart idea, won't say more than that about the tragic event.
A bolt action rifle or even a semi automatic is a different beast entirely.

I was taught to shoot a BB gun around 5 or 6 and .22 and .410 as other guns not much later.
The instructors in the Jr rifle club I attended while my father was in the Army taught a lot of young kids to shoot safely and well, one of the highlights of my childhood.

As shooters and hunters we need to realize that 9 year olds and 11 year olds become voters pretty soon and I think a positive exposure to firearms at that age is import to all gun owners futures.

Be sure you check the laws in the state you are hunting in, some allow .223 for deer some don't.

Good luck and I hope they both bag a deer, I thank you for taking them hunting.

On reflection I would second the using what they are used to.

 

[redbullitt]

Depending on the kid, 9 is plenty old enough IMHO. If they are mature enough in your eyes then have at it. To each their own though. I was a touch younger than that for my first deer, and it happened to be with a 223.

IF legal, that 223 is plenty viable, especially if you handload. I have killed many deer inside 100 yards with 223. CNS shots many times, but those shot through heart/lungs were also quite dead. I used a 60g nosler partition loaded at upper medium velocity. Good terminal effect on what I saw.

Reduced recoil loads are commercially available for 30-06 and should do very well inside of 100 yards. I have taken and have seen deer taken with 30 calibers downloaded to 60 or 70 pct. H4895 is a very good choice along with a lighter bullet.

I would say use what you have if possible. No sense in buying something if you do not have to. BUT if you want to get something with less recoil for deer look very hard at the 243 win, 260 Rem, and 7mm08. Great on deer, low recoil, and easy to make or buy ammo.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Flame suit on

But 223 with today's bullets is VASTLY superior as a whitetail cartridge to 243 with bullets from 15 years ago.

That's not a knock on 243 but an illustration as to how much better bullets are today. Folks didn't have problems with recommending 243 back then and deer haven't gotten any tougher in the time since


On the 30-06 a 125g nosler b-tip stoked with just enough Re7 to hit 2700 fps makes a terrific shooting fairly easy kicking deer round that's wonderfully accurate in my guns

 

[Captcurt]

The old Lyman book had reduced loads in it. I downloaded a 243 with 90 Speer HotCor at 1700fps for a friends grandson. I think that he was 7 or 8. He took four deer the first two years and graduated to full loads. The load worked swell. I have the book loaned out or I would look a load up for you.

If I had a munchkin shooting a 223 I would grab a box of Fusions and not have any reserves as long as the kid could prove that he/she could shoot.