Light .38 special loads for a weak person

You can also do what is called a reverse workup. You start at min and work down till you find what your want. Just make sure the bullet clears the barrel and hits the target. WST is one powder that burns exceptionally clean at reduced loads. A crony is good idea when doing this. Around 600 fps is when you run the risk of sticking bullets in the barrel. Lead bullets you can reduce to lower velocities than jacketed.
 
One thing to be aware of is effectiveness if one is creating mega-light loads for self defense. I have had 148 gr DEWC/2.7 gr Bullseye bounce off of old conveyor belt used as target backing materials that .22 lr pass through and even plastic shotgun wads have gotten stuck in. I doubt those BE rounds would have penetrated a skull or a sternum without a lucky shot in an eye socket or between rib bones.

(I get it, having a gun is better than not. But there is a reason powderpuff loads are not seriously considered for defense because even full power handguns using time-tested ammo aren’t the best at stopping crooks fast, either.) I recommend to let the shooter know to expect serious limitations on the effectiveness of the ammo they will be using if it is downloaded to the extreme. (And let’s all hope it never has to be used. :thumbup:)

Stay safe.
 
True, but there are regular recommendations of midrange wadcutters for self defense.
Maybe that should be the minimum and the real poofty stuff left for familiarization.
 
I just went back and reread the first post, and seeing that he has 158 gr SWC bullets, the trick is going to be to reduce the recoil by reducing the velocity of the bullet. Ideally, you’d want to use the slowest powder to create more push than snap, but the three listed powders are very close together and won’t make a great deal of difference. Lyman #48 shows a 160 gr LRN with a load of 3.5 gr Win 231 at 675 fps. That should give a pretty low recoil.

Just keep in mind that bigger bullets and faster velocities give more recoil. Lighter bullets and lower velocities give less recoil. If 158 gr SWC is what you have, then you’ll need to reduce the velocity as low as you can, but not so low that the bullet won’t reliably clear the barrel, in order to reduce the recoil.
 
The 158gr loaded light for BE shooting with Titegroup is around 3.0gr with a 6in barrel. I'd imagine you could go a little lighter than that by a couple 1/10ths at least.
 
I’m not a fan of Titegroup. I stuck a bunch of bullets in a 38 Special gun using Hodgdon’s data. But it was a 6” barrel gun.

I used a 2” J-frame to consume the rounds without issue.

Any bullseye target load should offer light recoil. Bullseye, W231,HP-38, or Accurate#2 would be good choices.

Think about getting her a Model 36 or a 38 Special Model 60. A bit heavier gun than the 642 and has single action capability. Also, they were made in 3” barrel models as well. A bit heavier and a longer sight radius.

Get a little bit larger grip than normally comes on a 642. Pachmayr or Hogue have good rubber examples. Maybe not as pretty but easier to hold and they soak up some recoil.

My 2 cents worth.
 
Riomouse911 said:
One thing to be aware of is effectiveness if one is creating mega-light loads for self defense. I have had 148 gr DEWC/2.7 gr Bullseye bounce off of old conveyor belt used as target backing materials that .22 lr pass through and even plastic shotgun wads have gotten stuck in. I doubt those BE rounds would have penetrated a skull or a sternum without a lucky shot in an eye socket or between rib bones.

(I get it, having a gun is better than not. But there is a reason powderpuff loads are not seriously considered for defense because even full power handguns using time-tested ammo aren’t the best at stopping crooks fast, either.) I recommend to let the shooter know to expect serious limitations on the effectiveness of the ammo they will be using if it is downloaded to the extreme. (And let’s all hope it never has to be used. :thumbup:)

Stay safe.
Click to expand...
I’ve been following since the OP but haven’t wanted to comment because where I think the solution lies is not where @Stefan A wants to go.

First, there are more options than powder puff ammo. A hand filling grip of recoil absorbing material is one. Don’t let yourself get head wrapped over what you would do, or not do, remember mom’s going to be keeping this thing in her purse, not a slick draw spy guy holster. Get a grip that fills her hand and lets her control the recoil.
Second, no offense but it sounds like mom’s a lot tougher than you’re giving her credit for. That means you should try to remove yourself from the situation and introduce her to a professional trainer. Let the professional make the suggestions and analyze the results.
Finally, @Riomouse911 is right: force is acceleration times mass, everywhere and always. Too light a load is counterproductive. Let mom try a manstopper and decide for herself if it’s worth carrying.
I hope this helps.
 
I did some 158 Grain LSWC, with 3.3 grains of Win231. They were clearly lighter than factory loads and easy to shoot. Depending on who's data you're looking at that is at or just below the starting load, just fyi.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I think she has the attitude, but not sure she’s all that “tough.” But you’re right, a professional trainer is a great suggestion.

Anyway, I live in Pa. and she is in Fl. I see her maybe once every 2 years. I happen to be visiting next week. So there’s not much opportunity for experimentation. I was going to make these rounds and test it in my 2” cobra - knowing that my gun is 10 ounces heavier and won’t really give me a complete idea of how it will feel with her gun. I’ll probably bring some of my 4 grain 231’s but also make some much slower 231’s. If they come out of my gun, they should come out of hers.

I am limited in my supplies and time to get new supplies, so I’m just going to use what I have as described in my first post. I do have slower powders, but I didn’t think they were appropriate for such a short barrel.

We will go to a range and I will try to instill the proper foundations for safety and gun handling. She did pretty well 2 years ago when I took her to shoot her little .22. I doubt she’s gone shooting since then.
 
make some mouse fart loads with the Win231 and test them out on your own first, just a thought. I've been down around 3.3 grains, maybe 3.2 and they work good, but there is a bit of unburned Win231. they work. 158 Grain LSWC.

as another thought, is a mouse fart .38 special load any better than a good .22 LR at full velocity and a hollow point tip? it is a much bigger heavier chunk of lead, but going about half the speed. just makes me wonder the value of the excercise.
 
I posted earlier about using 75 gr wadcutters, but we only use those for practice, then she finishes up with a couple cylinders of regular 38 special loads. She just couldn't get much practice if she shot full strength loads all the time. She keeps full strength loads for self defense, but gets much more practice in using lighter loads. Think "muscle memory".


Cliff
 
I loaded some 231 at 2.9g and they were fine coming out of my cobra. I was solely judging on felt recoil - not really accuracy. I do realize these will feel different coming out of a 642, but hopefully it won't be so bad. I suppose I ought to try it on paper at some point.

Thanks for the link Mr. Flintstone. I may get some to see what they're like.
 
I load some very soft 158 grain cast loads for my Henry rifle. I'm presently using up a random lot of Red Dot, but I have used HP-38 as well. My load is in the 3 gr ballpark for both. Recoil and blast are near non-existent. A light pop and push, comparable to a .45 cal muzzleloader with a light target load of 20gr FFFg. The result in a heavy 6" Taurus M66 are similar. The purpose of these loads is enhanced "long range" feel on 100+ yard targets with the low-noise being a nice bonus. You really have to hold some Kentucky with a 158RN moving around 600FPS at a 4" firewood split 100 or more yards out! They are as accurate as anything out of the Henry (until it gets windy!) and acceptable for plinking from the Taurus.

I think a 158 SWC or 148 WC cast from a soft alloy with a slightly below start charge of any of the powders you list would be a strong choice for a very soft shooting load. I prefer the heavier range of bullets at low velocities for "soft" shooting. I feel perceived recoil is sharper with lighter slugs due to the higher velocities, even with reduced charges.
 
Well, this topic has got my interest up, so I decided to do a little experimenting. To get similar results, I used my Taurus Model 85 Ultralite with a 2” barrel. Genitron shows it to have a recoil factor of 5.8 ftlbs.

I made up four each of 158 gr cast loaded with 9.8 gr IMR 4227 @733 fps, 158 gr cast loaded with a minimum 3.1 gr Win 231 @ 581 fps, 125 gr cast loaded with a minimum 3.2 gr Titegroup @ 658 fps, and 90 gr (.380 acp) XTP loaded with 4.9 gr Titegroup @ 775 fps. I couldn’t find data for a 90 gr XTP for 38 special, so I used the max data for a 110 gr XTP which Gordon’s Reloading Tool showed would have a velocity of about 1,100 fps from a 4” barrel which is pretty close to the 1,200 fps that the Hornady Lite rounds should be.

Firing them through the chronograph, The 4227 loads were definitely the heaviest with fairly substantial recoil for a 38 special. I couldn’t tell much difference between the Win 231 158 gr loads and the Titegroup 125 gr loads, but they were much lighter than the 4227. When I got to the 90 gr loads, I could tell an even bigger reduction in recoil. But all that is subjective, so I did some calculations online with a recoil calculator.

The 4227 loads showed a recoil energy of 5.0 ftlbs and an impulse of .58 lbssec with the measured average velocity. The 158 gr Win 231 loads showed 2.6 ftlbs and .42 lbssec. The 125 gr loads showed 2.17 ftlbs and .38 lbssec. The 90 gr loads showed 1.8 ftlbs and .34 lbssec.

I would suggest using the Hornady ammo instead of handloading the 90 gr XTP bullets because after sizing with a .38 special die, it requires using a 9mm or .380 sizing die to size down the case mouth to.355 and a 9mm or .380 crimp die. The smaller than normal bullet may also cause some accuracy issues in some guns, although I didn’t notice any in mine.

I would like to test the 90 gr bullets more in the future with some better computer modeling and a variety of powders, but I think the Hornady bullets would probably be a good match for the intended use. The 158 gr bullets with a minimum charge would also be a very light load.
 
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Lighter bullets are better for low recoil, but experience has shown that most any bullet can be "worked down" to well below typical published starting loads in a 38. Faster powders work better for this kind use. A lot of Cowboy action load data is out there with very close to 600 fps from a full sized revolver. Shooters World published handgun data around or a little bit below 500 fps.

My wife is very recoil sensitive and her little Ruger LCRx is very light. As such, recoil even with normal mild 120 gr target ammo was too much for her.

After scrounging around my stuff I came up with a 102 gr Lee RN mold (108 gr as cast). I made up a bunch and "worked down" with both Titegroup and Promo. For Titegroup, 2.5 gr was "low enough" to not bother her. Chrono out of a 3" gun was pretty close to 600 fps (more when "tipped back", less when "tipped forward" just prior to firing). I found that I enjoy shooting this gun with either these or the 120 gr target load. A full power 158 crosses into "no fun" territory for the LCRx. I have fired a whole lot of this 108 gr low recoil ammo from a number of different guns including a Henry rifle.

Quickload says you will only lose about 10 fps swapping from a 110 gr to 158 gr, so I would expect this charge level to still be well above the threshold where there is a real risk of stuck bullet in a handgun. Around 2.0 gr TiteGroup is probably getting close to the lower edge of what is commonly considered as minimum acceptable (500 fps or so from a full sized revolver) loads.
 
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Just loaded a bunch of 125 plates over 6 4gr of #5, a starting load in Westerns manual. We're gonna shoot em in a 100+ yr old Colt today, so we keep the throttle on the light side
 
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