Light bullets in the .45 Colt rifle

[Charlie98]

Speaking strictly of .45 Colt in a rifle barrel (H&R Classic Hunter.)

Friend worked up some 200grn cast SWC bullets for me, for use in .45ACP loads. He powder coated 50 of them, at my request, for me to try in the H&R. Heretofore, I've always shot 250-270grn cast through the H&R, usually over IMR4227 or Unique, for roughly 1100-1200fps.

Plugging the numbers into QuickLoad, and keeping the pressure at about 16000psi, I'm looking at about 1400fps with the 200's, using either IMR4227 or Unique, or I can get 100% case fill with IMR4227, but at 20000psi... which would probably help the slow IMR powder burn better and more complete, but maybe not... QL only estimates 65% powder burn for that combo.

For those of you who shoot lighter bullets in a rifle barrel, is the slower IMR4227 going to do me any favors over the complete (and probably cleaner) burn of Unique?

I've never shot this light of a bullet in the .45 Colt, and this is just a technical exercise to see if I can shake anything worthy out of it. I suspect Unique will be the winner, here, but if anyone has experience with it, I'm all ears. I also don't like to waste components, so if I'm completely off the reservation...

 

[Charlie98]

Epilogue...

After thinking about it, and reviewing my notes from both .45 Colt and .41MAG, I decided to just stick with Unique, with pressures under 20K PSI. I had a problem early on with IMR4227 in starting .41MAG loads... it burned awful, and delivered poor accuracy, until I got the charge up; I just think the light bullet/slow powder isn't going to work well here... so why bother?

 

[AJC1]

Hugger-4641 seems really keen on red dot in his 45c with 200s. He had a real heavy 296 load that was hammering the rails at the Silhouette match. To much for 100 but the heavier animals at a 200 yd match seems to be better he said.

 

[Charlie98]

Hugger-4641 seems really keen on red dot in his 45c with 200s. He had a real heavy 296 load that was hammering the rails at the Silhouette match. To much for 100 but the heavier animals at a 200 yd match seems to be better he said.

I hadn't even thought of W296! ...it wouldn't be my first choice for 200's, but you never know. This is just a fool-around load... if I was shooting steel, I'd be using the 255's.

Actually, RedDot works very, very well in the .45 Colt, and for that matter... the .45ACP.

 

[Tall]

2400 powder will normally give ultimate velocity with lower pressure than 296 / H110 powder. I would use that in your rifle.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I used to use nothing else other than W231 in my 45 Colt ammo. For some reason I tried HS-6 and I fell in love with that combination. In the rifle barrel you do wan a slower powder but as you already decided 4227 is just too slow. If you have some HS-6 available you might give it a try.

 

[Charlie98]

2400 powder will normally give ultimate velocity with lower pressure than 296 / H110 powder. I would use that in your rifle.

Nope, no more 2400. Oddly enough, I traded nearly 3# of 2400 a few years ago for a big stash of .45 Colt bullets! As much as I like Alliant pistol powders, me and 2400 never got along very well.

I used to use nothing else other than W231 in my 45 Colt ammo. For some reason I tried HS-6 and I fell in love with that combination. In the rifle barrel you do wan a slower powder but as you already decided 4227 is just too slow. If you have some HS-6 available you might give it a try.

I've used some different powders for it over the years, including RedDot (which did quite well,) and even TiteGroup (which at least pushed the bullet out of the barrel.) I don't think I've ever used W231, even though I have some, and I've never owned HS-6.

I find it likely Unique will get the job done, it works well enough with the 255grn .45's, and, of course, with anything in the .41MAG.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Nope, no more 2400. Oddly enough, I traded nearly 3# of 2400 a few years ago for a big stash of .45 Colt bullets! As much as I like Alliant pistol powders, me and 2400 never got along very well.




I've used some different powders for it over the years, including RedDot (which did quite well,) and even TiteGroup (which at least pushed the bullet out of the barrel.) I don't think I've ever used W231, even though I have some, and I've never owned HS-6.

I find it likely Unique will get the job done, it works well enough with the 255grn .45's, and, of course, with anything in the .41MAG.

Nothing wrong with Unique or it wouldn't be around so long lol. I think it was only the second smokeless powder ever made behind Bullseye.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Speaking strictly of .45 Colt in a rifle barrel (H&R Classic Hunter.)

Friend worked up some 200grn cast SWC bullets for me, for use in .45ACP loads. He powder coated 50 of them, at my request, for me to try in the H&R. Heretofore, I've always shot 250-270grn cast through the H&R, usually over IMR4227 or Unique, for roughly 1100-1200fps.

Plugging the numbers into QuickLoad, and keeping the pressure at about 16000psi, I'm looking at about 1400fps with the 200's, using either IMR4227 or Unique, or I can get 100% case fill with IMR4227, but at 20000psi... which would probably help the slow IMR powder burn better and more complete, but maybe not... QL only estimates 65% powder burn for that combo.

For those of you who shoot lighter bullets in a rifle barrel, is the slower IMR4227 going to do me any favors over the complete (and probably cleaner) burn of Unique?

I've never shot this light of a bullet in the .45 Colt, and this is just a technical exercise to see if I can shake anything worthy out of it. I suspect Unique will be the winner, here, but if anyone has experience with it, I'm all ears. I also don't like to waste components, so if I'm completely off the reservation...

My experience is with .44-40, not .45 Colt, so it’s in the ballpark but playing a slightly different game. In my experience, IMR 4227 in a forty-bore needs a heavy load to push. A light bullet will work better with Unique.

 

[Charlie98]

My experience is with .44-40, not .45 Colt, so it’s in the ballpark but playing a slightly different game. In my experience, IMR 4227 in a forty-bore needs a heavy load to push. A light bullet will work better with Unique.

One of the things that made my mind up to skip IMR4227 was the QuickLoad data. When I was working up some .357 data for John, I saw the '95% burn' line move backwards as the charge increased... meaning the burn became more efficient as the charge grew, and probably because of a number of factors, including case fill, which I also saw with my initial loads in the .41MAG. I didn't see that when I ran .45 Colt data with IMR4227 with the 200grn bullet... in fact, the 95% line never appeared. The best burn % I could possibly get was 65%... and that was stuffing that case full of powder (105% fill.)

Unique will work, for sure. There is probably a happy medium in there somewhere... maybe BlueDot, maybe 2400 (which behaves a little differently than IMR4227, ) but, as I say, this is sort of a practical experiment for me and the H&R. I have neither of those powders.

 

[AJC1]

One of the things that made my mind up to skip IMR4227 was the QuickLoad data. When I was working up some .357 data for John, I saw the '95% burn' line move backwards as the charge increased... meaning the burn became more efficient as the charge grew, and probably because of a number of factors, including case fill, which I also saw with my initial loads in the .41MAG. I didn't see that when I ran .45 Colt data with IMR4227 with the 200grn bullet... in fact, the 95% line never appeared. The best burn % I could possibly get was 65%... and that was stuffing that case full of powder (105% fill.)

Unique will work, for sure. There is probably a happy medium in there somewhere... maybe BlueDot, maybe 2400 (which behaves a little differently than IMR4227, ) but, as I say, this is sort of a practical experiment for me and the H&R. I have neither of those powders.

Run the numbers on Silhouette... it's a flake slower than unique, cheaper and you know my affinity.

 

[Hugger-4641]

For those of you who shoot lighter bullets in a rifle barrel, is the slower IMR4227 going to do me any favors over the complete (and probably cleaner) burn of Unique?

I'm curious about this myself as I haven't loaded any 4227 yet. My H110/296 load is hitting 1700plus with 200gr coated, but also starting to flatten primers. I can get the same speed plus a little more with Red Dot and no flat primers, so I haven't found it's limit and probably not gonna keep trying, 1700fps is more than fast enough.
My reasoning is I want to match the aim point at 200m to be the same as that I'm using at 100m and 1150fps. I know, it's a little unorthodox and maybe I will be better off to use 250gr bullets, but I'll figure that out, it's all just for fun with this gun anyway.
HS-6 and 4227 are on list to work with next so I'm curious to see what you find.

 

[Charlie98]

HS-6 and 4227 are on list to work with next so I'm curious to see what you find.

Well... I've written off IMR4227 with the lighter bullets, I explained why (post #10.) HS-6 sounds intriguing, however... if you have that, I'd prolly start there.

I have to ask... I understand getting 1700fps with W296... looking at the data on QuickLoad, how much RedDot are you using to get 1700fps??? I'm showing something like 11.5grn at 37000psi!

 

[Hugger-4641]

Well... I've written off IMR4227 with the lighter bullets, I explained why (post #10.) HS-6 sounds intriguing, however... if you have that, I'd prolly start there.

I have to ask... I understand getting 1700fps with W296... looking at the data on QuickLoad, how much RedDot are you using to get 1700fps??? I'm showing something like 11.5grn at 37000psi!

You are right on the money, with CCI LPM . The load I've settled on at the moment is 11.2gr , giving me right at 1600fps and should be about 35k. Even though I didn’t see any pressure signs in that 1700+ load, for the sake of my gun, I don't think I need to shoot many rds at 1700+. It's definitely over the recommended limits for coated cast.

 

[Charlie98]

Just FYI... You are getting flat primers with the W296/H110 load because the primers are probably backing out of the pocket. QL shows that load at barely 18K psi.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Just FYI... You are getting flat primers with the W296/H110 load because the primers are probably backing out of the pocket. QL shows that load at barely 18K psi.

Makes sense. That load was 24gr I believe and I thought I should be able to go 26gr or so but haven't tried.

 

[Charlie98]

Just FYI... 26grn H110/W296 is the exact number I plugged into QL... to give me 1600fps and 16500psi. It also shows only a 72% powder burn... so it's not very efficient. I would prolly stay with your RedDot load, or give a 'middle of the road' powder like HS-6 a try.

If I didn't have so many goofy powders on the bench right now, I'd probably pick up a # of HS-6...

 

[Hugger-4641]

Just FYI... 26grn H110/W296 is the exact number I plugged into QL... to give me 1600fps and 16500psi. It also shows only a 72% powder burn... so it's not very efficient. I would prolly stay with your RedDot load, or give a 'middle of the road' powder like HS-6 a try.

If I didn't have so many goofy powders on the bench right now, I'd probably pick up a # of HS-6...

I've got a couple lbs of HS-6, my favorite for 9mm so far, so I'll probably try it next. If possible, I would like to use one powder for both the short and long range(200m) silhouette. I'm very happy with my 200gr load at 1150fps for 100m and less, this is with 7.2gr of Red Dot.
My 11.2gr load and my H110 load look good so far, but I haven't used them in a 200m match yet.

 

[mkl]

i've tried a lot of powders in the .45Colt and my first choice is Unique. That being said, the cleanest one and maybe the best one in a rifle would be WSF. Really clean in my 7 1/2 Ruger Blackhawk and accurate. Don't have a rifle, but if you can borrow enough to try a few rounds, you may be as surprised as I was as well as this works in the .45 Colt.

 

[Charlie98]

WSF.

I did a powder test in 9mm a few years ago, I really, really wished I would have included WSF... it looks like it might be a real winner in both the 9mm and the .45ACP.

 

[Jimfern]

I did a powder test in 9mm a few years ago, I really, really wished I would have included WSF... it looks like it might be a real winner in both the 9mm and the .45ACP.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/wi...ster Super Field is a,and 40 S&W pistol loads

 

[Charlie98]

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/winchester/winchester-super-field#:~:text=Winchester Super Field is a,and 40 S&W pistol loads

Once I burn up all this weirdo powder on the bench, I might give it a go... but until then, NO NEW POWDERS!

 

[Jimfern]

New powder? I'm kidding, I have lots I need to burn through myself.

 

[Roverguy]

Well... I've written off IMR4227 with the lighter bullets, I explained why (post #10.) HS-6 sounds intriguing, however... if you have that, I'd prolly start there.

I have to ask... I understand getting 1700fps with W296... looking at the data on QuickLoad, how much RedDot are you using to get 1700fps??? I'm showing something like 11.5grn at 37000psi!

If his rifle barrel is mounted on an SB2 receiver, he’s good for 65kpsi. I have the same, reamed for 45 Casull as many have done, and I’ve fired hundreds of full power 45 Casull loads as well as more than a thousand “Ruger Only” 45 Colt loads from it. So the pressure ceiling is brass and primer, not receiver and barrel. I get 2250 fps with Hornady 250 FTX and H110. I prefer 300 grs hard cast over 4227 at a more sedate 1800 and lower pressure. Fantastic little carbine on hogs.

 

[Charlie98]

New powder? I'm kidding, I have lots I need to burn through myself.

My 'get rid of it' powder stash includes 2.5# of WST, too. I actually like WST in the .45ACP, but I have 10# of Unique... and Unique works for everything. I have TiteGroup, SportPistol, W231, and W244 to get rid of, too...

If his rifle barrel is mounted on an SB2 receiver, he’s good for 65kpsi.

I know mine is (I took it apart to check...) and his probably is... I didn't think to ask. I'm just not a fan of big charges of fast pistol powders.

So the pressure ceiling is brass and primer

Indeed.

Question for you: How is the lockup on your SB2? Mine, when compared to my SB1 .410 Topper, is horrible... the .410 locked up like a vault, the .45 Colt not so much.