Light primer strike on Walther PPKS

[Shimitup]

Does anyone have thoughts on improving the firing pin strike on a Walther PPKS I had a misfire last weekend, it's not the first time. I've noticed less than ideal dents on the primers since I've owned it. A heavier hammer spring is not my preferred option since any one that knows these pistols knows they're awfully heavy to start with.

Thanks

 

[Jim K]

First, the usual. Make sure the firing pin tunnel is clean and free of dirt and crud and the firing pin moves without binding.

Did you buy the gun new? If not, it is possible that a previous owner lightened the mainspring to make DA firing easier, a fairly common (if not good) practice. You could replace the mainspring anyhow (they are only about $5 or so) just to be on the safe side.

Like any pistol or revolver with a light hammer, a heavy mainspring is needed to give the hammer enough momentum for reliable firing.

Jim

 

[Shimitup]

Thanks for the reply, indeed I have done all the usual. I purchased new maybe 15 years ago. My Walther is of the Interarms variety. I maintain it very well, after every outing it gets a complete teardown, inspection and cleaning. All parts are factory original. All sliding parts and pins have been deburred and polished, firing pin and hammer movement are nearly frictionless. The hammer stroke looks good in both SA and DA mode. I'm at a bit of a loss as to what my next step might be. One thing I noticed is the (excessive) strength of the firing pin spring. perhaps a lawyer designed spring? I can't imagine a slam fire or drop fire considering it's strength.

 

[Jim K]

It does sound like the firing pin spring may be too heavy, but if you bought the gun new, it should be factory spec.

Another possibility is the ammunition. Could it be old or have been poorly stored? Have you tried different brands?

Jim

 

[Shimitup]

Thanks Jim,

I a pretty ardent reloader, thus most of my guns have never seen a factory load. However I will say with 9mm and 380 the Winchester white box hardball is so cheap I'll shoot it to get the brass. I use Winchester WSP and Federal 100 primers on my 380, I seat them till I feel them bottom and add a couple more pounds to the handle, all primers are checked to verify they are seated below the case head. The appearance between factory loads and mine has been relatively uniform as I recall with the pin making a smallish indention with a faint ridge of the firing pin hole around the pin dent. One Item I worked on the other day was to cut the down the step on the dogleg of th hammer strut a few thousandths. The hammer was beginnning to retard several degrees before striking the pin. Right now I have the hammer backing up to give the hammer block about .007 clearance, it was way more than that before I started. As it is now the hammer still parks about .020 or more away from the pin. I may shave a few thou off the block and bring the hammer down a bit further. As for the pin spring I may drop a primed case in the chamber with dye on the primer, I'll follow that by cutting a coil at a time from the spring and letting the slide slam home until I see a mark on the dye and then replacing the spring with a new one a coil or two longer for safety. I still want to check the little spherical section of the firing pin and make sure it's plenty of clearance in the bore through the safety. I still intend to go through it piece by piece one more time with a magnifier to see if I can spot something specific to spare me this trouble.I'm not a real gunsmith and staying at a Holiday Inn won't help me! It's late I'm going to bed before I write anything else.

 

[Jim K]

It sounds like you are concerned with slam fire, but that firing pin is just too light for that to be a concern, and the firing pin block will protect against any "drop on the hammer" situation.

Jim

 

[Shimitup]

Yea, it is tiny, I'm sure you're right. I just tend to be super cautious and perhaps over methodical in my approach. I'll post later with the final tweaks and results. It'll satisfy my curiosity to know just how much spring it really takes.

Take Care,
Robin

 

[Shimitup]

Rather than start a new thread I thought I'd bring this back to the top in order that the whole issue with responses remain contiguous. I've discovered the problem with the light primer strikes, the decocker is rotating out of it's detent during cycling thus the keyhole slot or whatever you call in the barrel of the decocker assembly is obstucting the firing pin. I've removed the detent pin and changed the angle of the cone from about 30 degrees to about 45 degrees to stiffen the effort to pop it out of the detent. It now takes great effort to engage the decocker which I really don't mind as I want to insure that it remains in the state that I put it in, just as any safety device whether my 1911 or DA semi auto. Today at the range probably 8 or 9 times it not only rotated enough to lock the firing pin it it snapped all the way down into the decock position 4 times in a row while shooting. I'm totally at my wit's end, this does not even seem possible for this to happen. any ideas.

Thanks.

 

[dfariswheel]

Check the safety detent and extractor plunger spring for weakness or damage.

Check the spring tunnel in the slide for gunk, burrs, or rust.
A good test is to gently push the safety detent plunger through the slide tunnel to check for anything that may be causing the spring or either plunger to stick.
Check the extractor plunger to insure it's the correct part, not damaged, and is properly installed with the flat on top of the extractor.
The detent holes in the safety should be checked for burrs, impacted gunk, or the holes not deep enough.

This assembly is not complicated. You have the rear detent, the spring and the extractor plunger. SOMETHING is either not putting sufficient tension on the safety, or something is damaged or defective.
It has to be the safety, the detent, the spring, the extractor plunger or the slide.

 

[Shimitup]

Thanks for the reply dfariswheel, as you note, yes this gun is very simple. I purchased new, maintain and clean meticulously it only has maybe 700 rounds through it at most. All of the parts associated with the decocker on close inspection appear perfect, as you probably noted I did change the angle of the point on the detent pin. I also gave the spring a little stretch while I was at it. I have very large and strong hands and it takes me a very concerted effort to engage or disengage the lever, folks with small or delicate hands would likely find it inoperable. That's how stiff I have it set. That's also what makes the problem so frustrating. I have Googled the problem with various wordings and searched a Walther specific forum, the only hit was Whitewolf 508 here at THR, in an old post he mentioned the issue with his PPKS. I PM'd him to see if he resolved the matter, no reply yet. Considering Google is a pretty darn good search engine 1 good hit here at THR makes me think it must be a very rare problem. I'm thinking I need to start by watching it happen with a video cam with a good high frame rate. I'm wondering if a very few guns may have a bizarre harmonic vibration to cause such a thing.

 

[GLOOB]

Well, it sounds like w/e you did made it worse.

One Item I worked on the other day was to cut the down the step on the dogleg of th hammer strut a few thousandths. The hammer was beginnning to retard several degrees before striking the pin. Right now I have the hammer backing up to give the hammer block about .007 clearance, it was way more than that before I started. As it is now the hammer still parks about .020 or more away from the pin. I may shave a few thou off the block and bring the hammer down a bit further.

I can't quite picture what you're describing, here. But is it possible that your changes cause the hammer hit the block in such a way as to create a rotational force? And that this is a new problem that you created in an attempt to fix the original problem? You didn't notice the safety dropping before, now did you?

If the safety is hard as heck to move, then there has to be something making it drop, and that's the best I can think of.

BTW, AFAIK, you will not succeed in getting a better strike via that route (of trying to get the hammer more forward travel). When the hammer hits the pin, the pin immediately bounces away, like what happens when the cue ball hits another billiard ball. The distance the hammer follows through doesn't matter, because the FP is long gone by then.

If you sort out the safety lever thing, I was going to suggest that one way to get a stronger strike is to make the hammer heavier. You might try pinning a short section of brass rod through the hole in the hammer.

 

[willow]

Would you tell me your serial #. I was shot in the leg in April 2010, Walther ppk, S&W said the gun was manufactured either at the end of Interarms reign in manufacturing( he said New Jersy) or in Germany. Before S&W took over manufacturing. The serial number on my gun is 6 numbers looks like it could be a model number, and not close to the serial #'s on the recall.My gun fired without squeezing the trigger I had a round in the chamber I was loading it at the time it fired. Any info would in regards to this will be greatly appreicated. Thanks, Kay

 

[Shimitup]

Gloob, I did do something to make it worse, it turns out that making it nearly impossible to decock with the thumb lever made it an excellent auto decocker. Digressing to the point you made about the work I did in my quote, what I was doing with that work was in another way of describing, adjusting the position that the hammer parks. As shipped from the factory the hammer was beginning to compress the hammer spring, thus decelerate a couple of degrees before striking the firing pin. My adjustment placed the parked position in the ballpark of a little less then one degree of rotation farther forward still clear of the hammer block so that it may reliably drop when the trigger is released. I'm well aware of the nearly instantaneous rebound of the firing pin long before the hammer smacks the face of the decocker, Just trying to maximize velocity before it hits. As per you're suggestion for a heavier hammer, my preference is for high velocity hammers with tiny firing pins extra weight would slow it up. I know the work I've done is not much change but it is a small change. with all that done the gun continued to behave as always intermittant light strikes. It wasn't until a year later that I noticed the rotation of the decocker, bummed that I was so unobservant I realized that was probably the problem all along. The next change was as I already described sharpening the point on the detent pin, this work last week. I was at the range last Wed putting about a box through it, horrible result from the work. One thing I noticed was as long as I placed the decocker back in the detent after every shot I got a nice heavy dent in the primer, no issue with firing pin energy. You're right about something putting rotational force on the decocker barrel. After you posted last I smoked my hammer face with a candle and snapped it a few times, I got a nice even contact patch right across the face of the decocker on the centerline of the firing pin. After a bit more searching the internet I did indeed find a couple more instances of this problem. no fixes yet though.


P.S.
Kay so sorry to hear of your injury, I hope you're healing well. That's a painful way to be reminded about muzzle direction. Are you pursuing legal action?

 

[texas711]

I just started having the same issue with my mid-80s Interarms PPKS. Like Shimitup I am the original owner and have always taken good care of the pistol. Less than 400 rounds over the years. Got serious about using it more as a carry gun this year and started paying attention to its quirks. Never has been a consistent feeder but this year the decocker started engaging while firing. At first I thought I must have hit it was my thumb, but no. Took it to a gunsmith who "reset the detente" and polished the feed ramp. Does feed better, but the decocker still auto engages and I began having light strikes. Put in a complete Wolffe spring kit (thanks to dfarriswheel for the how to's). Still light strikes and the decocker still wants to auto engage. Shimitup, did you ever find a fix?

 

[dfariswheel]

One sure "fix" is to send it in to Earl's Walther and have them look at the problem.
Contact them to talk about repair.

http://www.carlwalther.com/

 

[Shimitup]

Texas711,

Welcome to the forum! I never thought I'd see this post again. Your safest bet is probably to take dfariswheel's advise. I will say I seem to have corrected the problem with mine. What I have done is chuck a piece of PEEK plastic in the lathe to machine a low mass detent plunger for the decocker. It seems to have worked, the only time it has happened since is when I limp wristed the gun, firmed the grip back up and it stopped.

Good luck with yours, it seems to be an unusual though not unheard of problem. As with yours my problem began some years later after a few hundred rounds.

 

[texas711]

Shimitup, I'm glad that your solution has worked for you. Unfortunately, no lathe in my garage. I took the coward's way out - traded my PPKS for a new Glock. Just no room in my life for a gun that I don't have confidence in.

 

[Shimitup]

What! no lathe in the garage? Not sure I'd call it the coward's way out as much as good ol common sense. Quite honestly I don't yet have as much confidence in my PPKS since the fix as I do in most of my other guns. I desired a much lighter true pocket gun that I could develop confidence in so I bought a Ruger LCP earlier this year, so far it's been great. Comparatively the PPKS feels like a brick.

Take Care

 

[texas711]

Funny you mention the LCP, I held one this weekend. At 9.4 ounces it seems perfect for the pocket. I am just a little put off by 380 autos based on the Walther. Do you mind if I ask whether the Ruger been a 100% reliable feeder and striker for you? Any particular ammo recommendations based on your experience?

 

[Shimitup]

So far it's been great, best as I can guess I have maybe 350 rounds through it. I've shot Winchester white box, PMC, Monarch round nose and hollow point and Blazer brass. For hand loads it's been Sierra 90gr JHP, Hornady 90gr JHP and Speer 88gr JHP. So far it has not missed a beat, I've even limp wristed it a few times and it didn't mind that either. The only down side is that I have very large hands and my finger takes up the entire trigger guard. The bottom of my finger tends to pinch at the back of the stroke. I rectified some of that by polishing the trigger (particularly the sharp edge at the bottom) and inside of the trigger guard with 400 grit silicon carbide paper. I also find that the after market extended finger hook I bought for the mag helps with my grip.