Likely yawn inducing thread about an FFL application

[Gungnir]

Hey guys, quick question about FFL's and Alaska.

So here's my situation, I live about 15 miles east of Manley Hot Springs, in central AK, roughly 150 miles from Fairbanks, and as far as I can tell there's no-one in the area that has an FFL. So being the community minded person that I am, I'm thinking about applying for an FFL, so I can order and sell guns saves the 300 mile round trip to Fairbanks only to find you can't get the gun you'd like, and transfer for the locals, and seasonal hunters. At the same time it can net me a small income although it won't be my primary income.

Now I'm in the unincorporated, unzoned, and un-coded YK territory (no zone violations here), however is there any requirement to have a specific place of business as an FFL, or is the old "kitchen table FFL" alright?

I'm sure this has likely been discussed before, I did a site: on FFL's but the big question is the conflicting information about "kitchen table FFL's" it seems like a 50-50 split between it's illegal, and it's not.

Thoughts and opinions appreciated.

TIA

 

[zombienerd]

From what I understand the "kitchen table" issue has to do with zoning. If your house could be ANY business, then it can be a FFL business. Being that you're unzoned, you would be fine, just as if you wanted to open a diner or bed and breakfast in your house.


Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and I have never played one on TV. Your mileage may vary. Use of this advice may cause further medical problems.

 

[CoRoMo]

...information about "kitchen table FFL's" it seems like a 50-50 split between it's illegal, and it's not.

Yep, there is a metric ton of rubbish on the internet, but there's nothing illegal about the so called kitchen table FFL holder. You may proceed with haste.

 

[dogtown tom]

Anyone that tells you:
-kitchen table FFL's aren't allowed.
-you must have a storefront
-you need a sign visible from the road
-you must be open to the public
-ATF can search your house anytime they feel like it
-you have to make a profit
-Clinton changed the law and ran gun dealers out of business

NONE of the above is true.

I posted the following on another forum a while back. Since you are in Alaska there will be differences.

DogtownTom's Steps to getting an 01FFL in Texas:



1. Check with your city and county to see if home based business are allowed or not. Deed restrictions or homeowners association rules may prohibit home business as well. If you rent your home then read your lease contract to see if home business is allowed. Usually city & county websites will have this info on their website. Print out a copy of those rules and keep them. If all is okay with a home based business then...

2. Decide what kind of business structure you want to have: corporation, LLC, partnership (if you have a partner) or sole proprietorship. There are advantages to each kind: sole proprietor is the easiest, corporation or LLC may give you certain legal protections. Once you decide...

3. Go to the county courthouse and apply for an assumed name (DBA). Do this before you incorporate or form a partnership because the name you want may be taken. If you’ve already done this for your other business you could just use that name. Now that you have a name for your business...

4. Go to the IRS website and get a Federal EIN # for Federal tax purposes. Then...

5. Go to http://www.state.tx.us/portal/tol/en/bus/home and apply for your Texas Sales Tax & Use Certificate- this will be required. BTW, there is no sales tax paid on transfer fees- only on firearms you sell. You do not collect Texas Sales Tax on guns the customer buys and has shipped to you.

6. Decide what your “business hours” will be. These are not necessarily hours that you are open to the public, but hours you plan to devote time and attention to your business. My real job is teaching- so I put my “business hours” as M-F 5-10p. ATF wants to see that you are actually going to be in the business of dealing firearms. You can always change those hours later if needed.

7. Complete the Form 7 Application for Federal Firearms License. It doesn’t carbon copy, so you’ll have plenty of writing to do. It is actually three identical forms. Keep a copy for yourself, send a copy to the chief law enforcement officer of your city or county- and put a sticky note on it that says “For Files Only- No Action Needed”. Along with the Form 7, ATF will have sent fingerprint cards. Go to any law enforcement agency and tell them you need “prints for file” or “prints for Federal background check”. They should not charge you. Use ONLY the ATF fingerprint cards. Get two passport size photos taken. Mail this last Form 7 to ATF along with the app fee of $200, fingerprint cards and passport photos. I sent mine Priority Mail with Delivery Confirmation. How long you wait for the FTF interview with ATF depends on the volume of FFL applicants. While you are waiting...

8. Go to www.atf.gov and start reading EVERYTHING. I started with the “FAQ’s”, but keep in mind they are not the actual law, just a quick reference. I applied in June ’08 after school was out and spent at least an hour a day reading something on the ATF site. At some point, an ATF Industry Operations Investigator will call to set up an appointment for your interview. The interview will be at your “licensed premises” (your home). Odds are, he will already know if your home is legal for a home based business, but show him the proof you got in #1 above. Then...

9. At the interview, the IOI will review your application for accuracy and briefly review the various forms. It shouldn’t take more than an hour. He may ask about safes, alarms, etc. NONE of which are required- but it would make ATF very happy if you have a safe and alarm system. “Secure storage” has to do with gun locks for customer guns. Federal law requires every FFL to have gunlocks available for every firearm that they transfer. Almost all new guns come with a lock. Free locks are often given away at gun shows or you can buy them for as little as $1 each. After the interview...

10. He should have given you an idea whether you will get approved. The app will be reviewed by his supervisor before being approved. You should get your actual license in three to six weeks. Once it arrives...

11.Do NOT sign the license- leave it blank! Take it to Kinko’s and make LOTS of copies. I highly recommend signing one copy and having Kinko’s scan it both as a .jpg file and as a .pdf file. You can then email that FFL rather than faxing it. Faxed FFL’s often come out unreadable, not to mention it cost me nothing to email a copy, while faxing costs me paper and a big phone bill.

12. Immediately register with the FBI NICS http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics.htm You can’t transfer guns until you do. I registered with NICS at 7pm, at 9:30am the next morning they called to tell me I was active. After that...

13.Order your 4473’s from ATF, along with Multiple Sale of Handgun forms, Youth Gun Safety brochures and other forms you might need. ATF may have sent some when you get your license, but more is better. There is no official “bound book” and there are several different ones out there- I buy mine from Brownells because they are cheap. Order at least a pack of three. Put them in a three ring binder. Then...

14. Go to GunBroker, Auction Arms, GunsAmerica, etc and list yourself in the “Find an FFL” directory. After that things like business cards and the like to spread the word about your new FFL.

15. Although not required I highly recommend getting insurance. Collectables Insurance http://www.collectinsure.com/index.html has a firearm dealer policy that protects your inventory, when you ship customers guns and your guns on the table at gun shows. I also have my personal guns insured through them. Very easy to deal with.

16. AR15.com has an FFL forum that has good information and is worth a visit.



Whatever you do………don’t buy one of those “Get your FFL Kits” off the internet. They don’t tell you anything I didn’t write above.

 

[Gungnir]

Thanks for the information, seems like I can proceed "with haste"

DogTownTom, thanks for the detailled info, that helps a lot. I have the information listed already from the Alaska DNR, we're not in a city, and in an "unincorporated borough" as named by Alaska, i.e. only state law applies, there is no county/borough law or city ordinances. I also have my land patents (which do not define any restriction of purpose of land or building use). So I should be in the clear (of course I can just stick a sign on a shed if need be )

I'm thinking that the ATF guy isn't going to be too happy driving 150 miles from Fairbanks on mostly unsealed roads then 3/4 of a mile on my trail to my place to inspect my security. Although from that perspective an Alarm is totally useless since my nearest neighbor is about 2 miles away. However that does increase my security to a point as well, it's not likely someone can drive past my place and just decide to spontaneously break in.

Anyway now to wait for those forms...

 

[Jim K]

Dogtown Tom has a lot of good advice. Boiled down, there are two basic rules BATFE follows:

1. The 01 FFL is a business license, not a means of building your collection or getting wholesale prices for you and a few buddies.

2. An 01 FFL will not be issued if you are a prohibited person or the business would be in violation of state and/or local law.

Jim

 

[calaverasslim]

yawn!!!!!!

 

[Gungnir]

The 01 FFL is a business license, not a means of building your collection or getting wholesale prices for you and a few buddies.

LOL, since the nearest FFL is 150 miles by road, or 50 miles as the crow flies, then this is a gaping hole in the market. People up here need guns (Bears, Moose, Wolverine, Wolves, Coyotes, you name it no Elephants or Rhino) and a 300 mile round trip is roughly $150 at current fuel prices, so adding that to the transfer or sale costs it becomes an issue, especially when you get to Fairbanks and the dealer doesn't have what you want.

Now I'm never going to become a rich off this, but it's not my primary income, that's already covered. It would be so much easier for the folks living in my area to have an Licensed dealer who can do transfers in and out and sales with a modest mark up from wholesale, then the lower 48th crowd who come up and want an FFL transfer can get one more locally. If I cover costs and make a few bucks off it, that's good enough for me.