Liquid Version of Gunpowder?

[Boba Fett]

So I've finally decided to start reloading. *yeay* I've got some brass stored up and all the components ordered.


As I was ordering the powder, I remembered something from a movie or TV show (I can't remember which one now) where a character used some type of liquid as the propellant in the cartridge instead of gunpowder.

Yes, I know TV/Movies are not real. But it got me thinking if something like that were possible or if it had been tried before or even if such a product already existed.

Anyone know?

 

[Jerry D]

not once have I heard anything of the sort...

 

[WardenWolf]

There are ways to do it, yes. After all, nitro glycerine is a shock-sensitive liquid explosive. It's not practical, though, as liquid explosives tend to be less stable, and are also a lot harder to contain.

 

[Boba Fett]

Nitroglycerin was the first thing that came to my mind too. But as you said, it is unstable. I was trying to think if there were a stable liquid that would fit the bill.


I'm wonder though, would a liquid provide better or worse accuracy? I'm sure it wouldn't benefit the average shooter, but maybe for competition shooting?

 

[glockgod]

I've always wondered what gasoline would do. At last summers prices it wouldn't be too lucrative. No-I don't want anyone to try this!!!!!!!!!!

 

[snakeman]

All you really have to do is find two liquids that cause an extreme explosive chemical reaction when combined. Separate them into two chambers on which the seal is broken when the firing pin strikes the case. At this point the reaction should generate pressure acting as a gunpowder would.

 

[Slamfire]

Liquid propellants have been tried for small arms and cannons.

It was not as good as the current system.

Notice the report date is 1955!

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=AD0090727

 

[lgbloader]

Liquid? Hmmm

I imagine it would not meter nearly as good as powder, would it?!

 

[Boba Fett]

Gel maybe?

I've always wondered what gasoline would do. At last summers prices it wouldn't be too lucrative. No-I don't want anyone to try this!!!!!!!!!!

*eep*


In my search for a stable liquid propellant / explosive, I came across this:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2493524

It is the best of both the liquid and solid worlds; a gel.


Still looking for info on actual liquid (or gel) propellant / explosive if anyone knows of such a thing.

 

[Boba Fett]

Found several!

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5189249.html

Use the following to log in if you want to view the patent images (courtesy of BugMeNot.com):
[email protected]
desudesu


Kind of long read, but the abstract is:

An insensitive gel propellant composition based on a fine-particle detonating high explosive which contains from about 10 to 15 wt. % water, and which will not ignite until subjected to a temperature of about 900 psi.

Summary:

The present invention is an extremely stable, i.e., very insensitive, semi-plastic gel propellant composition which will not ignite until subjected to a pressure of at least about 900 psi and, when ignited, will burn with a flame temperature which is generally less than about 2000° K. Improvement in the level of insensitivity is achieved according to the invention by incorporating into the propellant formulation from at least about 5 wt. % and up to about 25 wt. % water. The gel composition of the invention comprises the following essential ingredients:

(a) from about 15 to 30 wt. % of a solid detonating high explosive, such as, for example, fine particle pentaerythrotal tetranitrate (PETN) or trimethylene trinitramine (RDX);

(b) from about 40 to 60 wt. % ammonium nitrate, an oxidizer;

(c) from about 1 to 5 wt. % of a gum thickening agent, such as, for example, guar gum;

(d) from about 5 to 25 wt. % water; and

(e) from about 1 to about 5 wt. % nitrocellulose. In addition, the gel propellant composition may also contain other ingredients, i.e., modifiers, such as, for example, up to about 10 wt. % urea; up to about 5 wt. % of a carbon material, such as, for example, uintaite (available under the trademark Gilsonite), ground rubber, carbon black, or any other high carbon content material which does not contain metals; up to about 1 wt. % of an organic base; up to about 5 wt. % starch; and trace amounts of a cross-linking agent, such as potassium pyroantimonate.

AND!

Another one which is for a gun and cartridge.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4972777.html

 

[moooose102]

it would have to be a liquid that either generates oxygen as a byproduct of cumbustion, or a liquid that contained an oxygen source in it in order to combust properly in a sealed enviroment. other than nitro, i don't really know of anything that would generate a decent amount of gases. and by the way, if you decide to try nitro, make sure your life insurance is paid up, and give everyone at the range a 15 minute warning!

 

[ants]

subjected to a temperature of about 900 psi.

That's odd, 900 psi is not a temperature.

 

[GRIZ22]

Liquid propellants have been tried for small arms and cannons.


They have tried them more recently for that purpose and still found problems.

 

[bluecat5296]

that would be a good one for the MYTH BUSTERS ON TV to try E-MAIL them and ask

 

[adrenalyn]

Just make sure you video for youtube if you decide to try gas or nitro. Guess im too conservative......or maybe just plain chicken. I will hold off on loading my 500 til I see the videos....good luck!

 

[Boba Fett]

Guess im too conservative......or maybe just plain chicken.

Some would say wise. But if they insist on chicken, I'm still there with you.

 

[adrenalyn]

Sounds like a good episode of Super Dave.Lol. What are you going to start off loading for?

 

[Boba Fett]

What are you going to start off loading for?

Hopefully to save money.

I'm loading 5.56/223 and 45 ACP for starters.

 

[adrenalyn]

Congrats! Its an awesome hobby. Very rewarding. Ive been reloading for my 500 for about 5 yrs now. Just now stocking up on other 45, 40, and 357 sig. Im not sure how much I could save on my AR. Its pretty expensive at first, but once you get set up, nothing like it. Just be safe.

 

[FM-793]

It's not outside the realm of possibility - I get loaded on highly combustible liquids on a regular basis. On a bench in the garage, since I've been married and got kids.

Sorry... couldn't help myself.

 

[Jim Watson]

I know the Army was working on liquid propellants for large calibers in the 1980s. The idea was to improve space utilization and protection in a tank or self propelled gun by storing a liquid in tanks made to fit the shapes and spaces available. It would also have reduced the crew workload by having to store and chamber only the shells. Propellant to be high pressure injected behind them rather like fuel in a diesel. They approached my outfit for studies on the use of excess or off-spec liquid propellant in nitrogen fertilizer. Nothing ever came of it that we heard of, though.