Malone LaVeigh
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That's right, California is awful. Don't even think about moving here. Especially don't consider buying a McMansion in Davis and bringing in the spouse, 2.1 soccer players, the dog and the SUV. You'd just hate it here.
List of anti-gun states to avoid. Of course Cal would be on top.
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Langenator
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That one-tenth of a soccer player is what, a single leg up to the knee?
As long as Steve's Place and Sudwerk are still there, Davis is always worth a visit.
As long as Steve's Place and Sudwerk are still there, Davis is always worth a visit.
SmershAgent
Member
Illinois made the list...no suprise there.
If it weren't for a lack of preemption, no carrying of any type, the NFA ban, FOID cards, private party background checks at gun shows, waiting periods, and lawsuits originating in Chicago up the wazoo, this state would be a haven for gun owners.
If it weren't for a lack of preemption, no carrying of any type, the NFA ban, FOID cards, private party background checks at gun shows, waiting periods, and lawsuits originating in Chicago up the wazoo, this state would be a haven for gun owners.
utahminirevolver
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Gosh, this might sound like I'm a masochist or that I'm boasting "my hell is worse than yours". That's not how I view it, but anyway:
Canada requires lawful gunowners to register both themselves (after classes in safety, laws, etc.) and each of their firearms. Only licensees can purchase ammo and must sign documentation in the store. Handguns may not have a barrel length less than 4.2 inches unless grandfathered (and these may not be willed to your survivors -the govt gets them for destruction when you die). Factory made hollowpoints cannot be imported for use in handguns (the .44cal boxes I bought had a sticker warning for use in rifles only). Guns must be stored locked up securely and empty, with ammo locked up in another location. Handguns must further have trigger locks. My reading of Canada's Criminal Code is that a handgun CCW for defense of self or property may be issued. But only an elite few ever obtain such a permit, and if you state on your application that the reason you want a handgun is self-defense, it will be denied. You have to state target-shooting, collecting, etc.
Canada requires gunowners to notify the govt whenever they move, giving their new address, but does not keep similar track of most felons after they're released from prison.
Canada also has high taxes (income, sales both Provincial-except Alberta - and Federal), cold winters, a tendency toward anti-Americanism and Christophobia, an ascendant Liberal Party mired in corruption scandals and fast-tracking the passage of a Gay Marriage law, and yet the majority say in polls that they'll reelect them because Conservatives are 'too scarey'.
OTOH, wife, kids, home, garden, job, memories built up over the decades are all here, so I'll continue to at least summer in the land of the maple leaf.
Canada requires lawful gunowners to register both themselves (after classes in safety, laws, etc.) and each of their firearms. Only licensees can purchase ammo and must sign documentation in the store. Handguns may not have a barrel length less than 4.2 inches unless grandfathered (and these may not be willed to your survivors -the govt gets them for destruction when you die). Factory made hollowpoints cannot be imported for use in handguns (the .44cal boxes I bought had a sticker warning for use in rifles only). Guns must be stored locked up securely and empty, with ammo locked up in another location. Handguns must further have trigger locks. My reading of Canada's Criminal Code is that a handgun CCW for defense of self or property may be issued. But only an elite few ever obtain such a permit, and if you state on your application that the reason you want a handgun is self-defense, it will be denied. You have to state target-shooting, collecting, etc.
Canada requires gunowners to notify the govt whenever they move, giving their new address, but does not keep similar track of most felons after they're released from prison.
Canada also has high taxes (income, sales both Provincial-except Alberta - and Federal), cold winters, a tendency toward anti-Americanism and Christophobia, an ascendant Liberal Party mired in corruption scandals and fast-tracking the passage of a Gay Marriage law, and yet the majority say in polls that they'll reelect them because Conservatives are 'too scarey'.
OTOH, wife, kids, home, garden, job, memories built up over the decades are all here, so I'll continue to at least summer in the land of the maple leaf.
Hawk
Member
One tends to adapt. I didn't notice the anti-gun climate very much when I was in NY (course it was a long time ago and likely nowhere near as bad as it is now).
The handgun weirdness goes back forever in NY and not just in "THE CITY". Permits in Monroe county (western part of state) exceeded my personal PITA threshold. However, once you got one, it was good for toting the thing around. When I first moved to Texas, I was gratified to see no permit was needed for possession, but mystified to note that it was actually easier to carry legally in NY than TX as TX simply had no means by which it could be done legally.
This might still be the case but for Susanna Hupps tragedy, Ann Richards losing to "W" (Molly is still screeching over that one, blaming it specifically on W's promise to sign a CCW bill).
In NY, certain of us (I am ashamed to admit) held a special distaste for pistol permitees, at least in those areas where the amount of political grease could easily exceed the cost of a high grade trap gun. The attitude displayed by some of the "haves" didn't help the situation any. Thankfully, I hear that scene has largely disappeared into the past. Once I left the NE, high-end trap clubs seemed to intercept the invective previously reserved for NY handgun permitees. Interesting. Sad, but interesting.
Also, in NY, I recall most of my buds would just grab any old shotgun and sally forth during deer season. In Texas, there was more involved. Since I don't hunt, I never learned about deer leases, but had heard of them. Since I couldn't picture why anyone would want to lease a deer, I just left the topic alone and waited years to be enlightened. Suffice to say that hunting here is a LOT more expensive than upstate NY.
Both states have gun clubs ranging from the ala carte public to inexpensive private to jaw-droppingly expensive. However, none have been missed more than "Stony Point" outside Rochester NY which had the princely dues of 35.00 a year, but most importantly, a bar on the premises. I can hear the screams now, and perhaps you're right...but it was there for after the events, we never had an accident and I just plain miss it.
It is, I suppose, extremely unlikely that Stony Point is still there, or, if it is, that the dues and bar are intact but it sure was nice while it lasted. I also understand Creekside (huge store like Ray's in Dallas) is gone. Creekside was another piece of Americana that can't be replaced if one is into racks and racks of used firearms (Auction Arms comes close, but lacks the adjacent range).
Nonetheless, not much chance I'd go back. Creekside disappeared about the time Chuck and Hillary went ascendant. There may be a connection there.
The handgun weirdness goes back forever in NY and not just in "THE CITY". Permits in Monroe county (western part of state) exceeded my personal PITA threshold. However, once you got one, it was good for toting the thing around. When I first moved to Texas, I was gratified to see no permit was needed for possession, but mystified to note that it was actually easier to carry legally in NY than TX as TX simply had no means by which it could be done legally.
This might still be the case but for Susanna Hupps tragedy, Ann Richards losing to "W" (Molly is still screeching over that one, blaming it specifically on W's promise to sign a CCW bill).
In NY, certain of us (I am ashamed to admit) held a special distaste for pistol permitees, at least in those areas where the amount of political grease could easily exceed the cost of a high grade trap gun. The attitude displayed by some of the "haves" didn't help the situation any. Thankfully, I hear that scene has largely disappeared into the past. Once I left the NE, high-end trap clubs seemed to intercept the invective previously reserved for NY handgun permitees. Interesting. Sad, but interesting.
Also, in NY, I recall most of my buds would just grab any old shotgun and sally forth during deer season. In Texas, there was more involved. Since I don't hunt, I never learned about deer leases, but had heard of them. Since I couldn't picture why anyone would want to lease a deer, I just left the topic alone and waited years to be enlightened. Suffice to say that hunting here is a LOT more expensive than upstate NY.
Both states have gun clubs ranging from the ala carte public to inexpensive private to jaw-droppingly expensive. However, none have been missed more than "Stony Point" outside Rochester NY which had the princely dues of 35.00 a year, but most importantly, a bar on the premises. I can hear the screams now, and perhaps you're right...but it was there for after the events, we never had an accident and I just plain miss it.
It is, I suppose, extremely unlikely that Stony Point is still there, or, if it is, that the dues and bar are intact but it sure was nice while it lasted. I also understand Creekside (huge store like Ray's in Dallas) is gone. Creekside was another piece of Americana that can't be replaced if one is into racks and racks of used firearms (Auction Arms comes close, but lacks the adjacent range).
Nonetheless, not much chance I'd go back. Creekside disappeared about the time Chuck and Hillary went ascendant. There may be a connection there.
Actually, this covers the idea of a progressive income tax. But it, like many parts of the original Constitution, have been changed by subsequent amendments:
Clause 4: No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.
Dishonorable mention: Residents of Connecticut, Delaware, Iowa, Michigan and Minnesota are required to get permits for handguns, but rifle and shotgun laws follow the national guidelines. Wisconsin's gun laws are average by current standards, but (as a 10-year cheesehead) I have to put the state on the list because of its confiscatory tax structure and gluttonous state and local government.
This statement is wrong about Delaware. You do not need any permits to purchase a handgun, rifle or shotgun at all. For a handgun you must fill out a state and federal background check form and wait about 10 min for your OK to come through on your background check. For rifle and shotgun you only have to fill out the federal form unless it is an AK-47/AR-15 type rifle in which case you must do the same as for the handgun purchse. Delaware is not shall issue and makes it a PITA to get a CCW permit but they are attainable as long as you follow the instructions and talk to people who have obtained their permit. The talk around the state is that we will most likely be shall issue next year sometime.
All in all a good site though and I will make sure to avoid the states listed.
Matt
This statement is wrong about Delaware. You do not need any permits to purchase a handgun, rifle or shotgun at all. For a handgun you must fill out a state and federal background check form and wait about 10 min for your OK to come through on your background check. For rifle and shotgun you only have to fill out the federal form unless it is an AK-47/AR-15 type rifle in which case you must do the same as for the handgun purchse. Delaware is not shall issue and makes it a PITA to get a CCW permit but they are attainable as long as you follow the instructions and talk to people who have obtained their permit. The talk around the state is that we will most likely be shall issue next year sometime.
All in all a good site though and I will make sure to avoid the states listed.
Matt
Vermont Guy
Member
Birddog's attitude is just what the "boiled frog" theory would predict.
The people here in NY are going to have to "force" themselves to realize that what we have here just ain't right. The Israelites didn't get far into the desert before they began to think they had had it pretty good in Egypt. It is a long hard walk to the promised land.
The only thing going for NY is the example of Vermont right next door.
The people here in NY are going to have to "force" themselves to realize that what we have here just ain't right. The Israelites didn't get far into the desert before they began to think they had had it pretty good in Egypt. It is a long hard walk to the promised land.
The only thing going for NY is the example of Vermont right next door.
RavenVT100
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One of the most alarming aspects of NJ's permitting system is that people do not enjoy medical privacy rights when applying for their permits. We're not talking involuntary committments for severe mental problems here...as a matter of fact, any visit with a medical doctor or psychiatrist about anything having to do with mental health, at any time in the person's entire life must be given up to the police or the subject faces prosecution and up to five years in prison. This could include seeing a psychiatrist because of depression, insomnia, or even being put on ritalin as a teenager.
What police departments in some areas do, because of liability and time concerns, is simply reject people out-of-hand who put anything about this on their application. So if you've ever seen a doctor and have been prescribed meds because you felt sad about a family member's death, for instance--congratulations, you may be prohibited from ever getting a permit. These people then lose their RKBA for life in the state, unless they want to go to court, in which case it's the doctor's word against theirs. And we all know how much medical doctors and the AMA love firearms.
The net effect has been that many gun owners in NJ are afraid to ever go to their doctor or see a psychiatrist, because they know their medical records won't be kept private and that they may very well be penalized for it.
What police departments in some areas do, because of liability and time concerns, is simply reject people out-of-hand who put anything about this on their application. So if you've ever seen a doctor and have been prescribed meds because you felt sad about a family member's death, for instance--congratulations, you may be prohibited from ever getting a permit. These people then lose their RKBA for life in the state, unless they want to go to court, in which case it's the doctor's word against theirs. And we all know how much medical doctors and the AMA love firearms.
The net effect has been that many gun owners in NJ are afraid to ever go to their doctor or see a psychiatrist, because they know their medical records won't be kept private and that they may very well be penalized for it.
I would think that federal HIPPA regulation alone would be enough to keep one's medical records private-but then NJ is not forcing anyone to apply for a 'permit' for which disclosure of private medical information is a component.
It's frickinridiculous. Next thing, you'll be 'disqualified' for other reasons. Maybe you've demonstrated aggression or anti social behavior in a letter to the editor on on an internet forum somewhere.
for which disclosure of private medical information is a component. It's frickinridiculous. Next thing, you'll be 'disqualified' for other reasons. Maybe you've demonstrated aggression or anti social behavior in a letter to the editor on on an internet forum somewhere.
RavenVT100
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I actually have no idea to what extent the NJ law is asking for WRT medical information. I have just heard about what has happened to people in the past. The law is worded so vaguely that it could either be highly limited to only 'really bad stuff' or be all-inclusive. I have no idea.
But it's a very big deal, and much more so than many people think. Especially considering that many of the restrictive states are considering adding people who fail their permitting process into the National Criminal Database despite not having done anything wrong.
But it's a very big deal, and much more so than many people think. Especially considering that many of the restrictive states are considering adding people who fail their permitting process into the National Criminal Database despite not having done anything wrong.
Dan from MI
Member
Ahh.....purchase permits and "safety inspections"(Registration). That is courtesy of our good buddies the Ku Klucksters back in the 20's.
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