Listen to NPR's 'Here and Now' on Monday

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Isn't a yacht a type of boat? If so, I am soon to be a yacht owner and I make less than $200k per annum.:D

princsailing1.jpg

Of course, the above is a representation of the do-it-yourself yacht I began making in my shop last winter. It should be ready for launch by summer '07 if I want all of the interior appointments finished up before launch.

Where there's a will there's a way.
 
Imagine --yea I don't mean that John Lennon crap but just imagine if all the people who make over 100,000 a year just decided to strike ie not work for 6-months to a year. Wonder if that would put a crimp in the socialist plans or will they just try to pass a law and force people to work for the government or the social welfare state or the common good. I would love to see that strike happen. Maybe it wil someday. Maybe it will. :what: Like I said in my earlier post I saw these farcical gun owners on Russert Meet the Press same ole crap re packaged with a shiney bow and glitter.:barf:
 
You know, the Dems used to be the party of states' rights. That used to be their numero uno plank in their whole platform. That's a major philosophical point and they have done a 180 on it. They could change their others, too.

They have been cutting open their own wrists on this gun control issue for the past ten years. They had control of Congress for decades until Clinton's AWB.

They're not dumb.

I wouldn't TRUST them, but then again, I also wouldn't trust the Repubs. They (all of them) need to be constantly reminded that we have no loyalty and if we are betrayed, we don't forget.
 
Would it be your socialist dreamworld to have everyone make $20k a year no matter what job they did?
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No.

Really rich people pay taxes and yet somehow remain rich. Did I say, "If you make $25,000 you'll be taxed 20% and if you make 600,000 you'll be taxed 96.6%" so as to always arrive at $20,000?

Have fun arguing with your strawman friend.

And remember, April 15 is coooming :eek:
 
I wouldn't ever mock or demean John Kerry's military service. He volunteered to go, he did what he did, and if he picked up a medal or two that he may not have shed a few buckets of blood to earn, then that doesn't mean he was trying to decieve anyone. Pretty much anyone who's spent any time in a combat zone can tell you that most of the medals they hand out are meaningless anyway. The sole fact that you went, and you did your job is all the recognition that really matters in the long run.

My problem is that if you go perform your military service, and then you come back to the US and throw your medals over the White House fence as an act of protest and claim you're ashamed of what you did, then it's an act of staggering hypocrisy to then try to go back and rewrite history, and paint yourself as a war hero 30+ years later. It's an amazingly clear demonstration of a person who will do or say virtually anything to anyone at any time in order to achieve power.
 
Boats--

It's not a yacht until you sail it into the Monaco marina wearing a white tuxedo. =)

BTW that's a nice boat. Good luck with the launch.
 
To all who vote for Democrats, I have an even more progressive idea!

Let ME rule your life. I don't pander to the trial lawyer crowd so I will tell the truth straight up!

Your guns are now mine as they should be. If you don't trust yourself with the important decisions in your life you can't be trusted with a gun anymore. I will keep you as safe as I decide you should be.

Send me all of your money. I will redistribute it to all Democrats so everyone has the same amount regardless of their intelligence or work ethic. People won't get lazy and stop working because, remember, I will have lots of guns and they wont (hint, hint). I make a solemn promise not to keep more than 50% of money I redistribute so you won't even notice a difference from what many now pay.

Just remember I will be ELITE and will be treated as a GOD compared to you. No more need for religion as I will be jealous and filled with rage (and will have many guns, hint, hint).

It will be a worker's paradise, by definition.

Any takers from the left???

Sorry I didn't have impossible, sugar coated promises like the trial lawyer crowd. I have not learned to spin and blurted out the truth. Does this disqualify me?
 
Mr. V, the "uber rich" will never have to pay much of a percentage in the way of taxes. They never have.

They don't work for salaries. they don't generate much "ordinary income", to use IRS parlance.

They own things which have value. They have enough tax-free or low-tax-rate income to support a lifestyle.

While I'm not all that rich, I can tell you that I pay more tax on my Social Security income than I do on that portion of my income which is much greater than SS: Tax-free municipals. When it comes to serious money, though, I'm ignorant when compared to those who study tax shelters.

Regardless, as has been found, when you raise the tax rates that would affect the very rich, total government income goes down. For instance, if you raise the capital gains rate, folks quickly quit investing in the stock market except safe long-term equities, and quit selling at all. No sales, no taxes. You mess with inheritance taxes, folks set up trust funds and divest more than three years ahead of anticipation of death. I suggest you don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

What's ironic is that the Democratic Party has fewer total donors than the Republicans. The Dems get larger checks, per person, on average; the Repubs get smaller checks, on average. Yet, the Repubs generally get more total money. I forget the URL; there's some outfit that publishes info about all donations to political parties, using government data.

Art
 
"You know, the Dems used to be the party of states' rights. That used to be their numero uno plank in their whole platform. That's a major philosophical point and they have done a 180 on it. They could change their others, too."

The Reps used to be the party of less government, too. What happened there?

Look how many years of US civillians outcry and outrage has it taken to finally perhaps see some illegal immigration reform? Far too many. How many years will it take to see action if we all start a grassroots movement to return to Constitutional governmental restraints? Far too many.

But for this to turn into a urinating match of Rep versus Dem is schlock. It's exactly the kind of thing these congresscritters thrive on. www.fairtax.org
 
I will redistribute it to all Democrats so everyone has the same amount regardless of their intelligence or work ethic.
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Oh, I forgot that all Democrats were also registered members of the communist party.

Comrades! ZEY'VE FEEGYURED UZ OUT! VEE MUST RETURN TO ZE MOZER RUSSIA!!!
 
Art--

I understand your argument. And I'm not going to support as excessive a tax on the rich as Europe has. Clearly recent events in France have highlighted that an excessively socialist system is silly too.

However, the libertarian economic system seems to paint the late 19th century as a paradise and ignore the 1930s entirely. So when some conservatives argue that liberal/socialist programs will cause economic collapse and poverty, was having no social programs paid for by taxes good either?

I suppose the real worry for both sides is that as the population size increases, will there be enough new jobs to either create enough wealth that social programs don't need to grow, or if not, will the socail programs become so big that the European nightmare (or according to mountainclimber --- my $20,000 per person dream) will come true, or will we do away with social programs and just have a lot of poor people with crappy education and no healthcare growing angrier and angrier?
 
Sorry! This poor thread...It's so easy to drift the topic off the edge of the world.

Somewhere between a two year old debate about John Kerry's military service and socialist tax agendas the point that the Democrats are singing the same tune about "hunting guns" was lost.

So in regards to that issue...:banghead:
 
I will make this as simple as possible for those on the left who haven't gotten what is obvious to those of us who are not idealogically blinded by socialist pathology:

The government CANNOT redistribute wealth. Wealth is something that is sustainable, that is grown and nurtured by an individual who is an active participant in its creation. The government, in an addle-brained left socialist approach that conveniently buys votes at the same time, redistributes MONEY from one group to another.
If you give most people who are chronically poor, making 15k per year, another 20k to spend, what will they MOST LIKELY do with it? Will they save some for their kids education? Will they make investments in real estate? Will they buy some bonds to lock in a rate of return that will likely beat inflation? What will that person do? They will likely SPEND that money on useless junk that will NOT increase their chances of sustaining a better way of life in the future. Most poor people are poor for one of two reasons, and I really hate to boil it down to this: They are either lazy, stupid, or some combination of both. No matter what the dream of the redistributionist mentality, the reality is that we were not all created equal. There are smart people and there are dumb people in the same way that there are tall people and there are short people. Short people usually have short kids, tall people usually have tall kids. Smart people usually have smart kids. Smart kids grow up to be smart adults to most likely outwit and outproduce people who don't have the same ability. Do some research, theres plenty out there on this.
The smarter you are the more in demand you are in the labor market. If you have specialized skills, or are extremely adept at what you do, someone will be willing to pay you more. People with special skills or talent are more RARE than people without. For the same reason that people pay MORE for some THINGS that are rare, the labor market prices their skills accordingly and in the same manner. Its called capitalism and it works EXTREMELY well for getting goods and services to the greatest number of people at the cheapest possible price with the greatest efficiency.
Oh, says the lefty-socialist-would be communist, lets just pay doctors and proffessionals the same as we pay the guy who mows your lawn. Yeah, well, if you haven't learned by now that this kinda FAILED miserably then there is no hope for you. Yeah, lets trade in a vibrant middle class, a small underclass, a small upperclass, for a massive group where basically everyone has very little and a few people have control and power. Yeah, thats a great trade. Sadly, that is the direction that socialism takes you. Look to Europe in the next few decades to see what socialism will get you. Hell, look at France now! Cradle to grave nanny-state nonsense where even the most sensible labor laws are protested in the streets by leftist students who are basically kissing any hope of a future goodbye.
End of rant.
 
Meta,

Couldn't have said it better! I have a college education (worked 3 jobs and made it through engineering school in 5 years), Never unemployed for over 35 years because of really hard work during tough times, frugal (10 year old SUV not paid for yet because I bought it very used, 19 year old car paid for), save for retirement because I don't trust the Socialists. I am married, middle class. And yet:cuss: John Kerry paid a much, much lower tax rate than I did. Just the Senate salary is so much more than I make. And Kelo???? If anyone trusts these socoalist clowns to do anything more than to fleece the productive class then I have a bridge to sell them. When being productive does not pay anymore, the formerly productive will sit down and hold out their hand. This is shown repeatedly in just the last century. And the intelectual socialists are simply so "stooopid" that they don't see it. They just wish on magic. I would like to see reverse Kelo to restore money to the productive class and see the intellectual socialists forced to get their hands dirty or starve. That is what I really think of the Democrats. The modern republicans are not too far behind. I would Kelo them too. If dims really believed their propaganda they would move to cuba or n. korea and bask in paradise with all the guns the intellectual governments would bestow on them.
 
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