Llama 111A problem

[dsv424]

I am trying to repair a Llama 111A .380 for a friend which appears it was neglected for a lot of years and was missing pieces also. Well I was able to locate the missing parts but when I got it assembled I had a very hard time pulling the slide back. So I took it all apart again and just attached the slide to the frame(without the barrel) and it is still very hard to move the slide back and forth. It seems to be binding somewhere within the grooves of the slide and frame. I have cleaned the grooves in both parts as best I could and lubricated it real good and it is now somewhat easier to slide back and forth but it is still not smooth like it should be and appears to be binding or catching for the lack of a better word. Any recommendations on what to do next would be appreciated. I realize this gun probably ain't worth the time and effort but its become personal now.:banghead:

 

[rcmodel]

Color the slide & frame rails and any other contact points with a black magic-marker.
Then assemble the slide to the frame (no barrel) and cycle it a couple of times.

Where the shiny steel spot/spots are is what is too tight.
Once you figure out what is dragging where, knock them down with a stone or needle files.

rc

 

[dsv424]

Thx for the advice RC. I did consider this but was a little apprehensive about taking a file to it. Is this a common practice for a situation like this? Or is it shoddy workmanship when the gun was made? I guess what I mean since I don't have much experience in toubleshooting gun problems do gunsmiths correct problems like this very often?

 

[rcmodel]

Well, we have to assume it fit correctly and worked when it was new. Llama's were not the top of the food chain, but most all of them would at least work right out of the box.
So something must have happened to the frame or slide while it was in the junk box since then.

Could have picked up a ding on a slide rail or maybe the slide got squeezed in a vice in an ill advised attempt to accurize it.

Hard to say why it is tight now, but if you can find the tight spot, I'd make it less tight and see what happens.

On the other hand, if you can assemble it, and get it to work for a few magazines of ammo, it might smooth itself up with just shooting it.

rc

 

[BBBBill]

Fitting of parts like that is a normal gunsmith function.

The LLama pistols were pretty much all rough as their machining was pretty crude. You slide or frame may have been bent/tweaked making it worse. Are they the original matched parts or is the slide new to the frame?

 

[dsv424]

The parts I ordered for the gun were neither the slide or the frame so I assume that these are the original parts assembled when the gun was manufactured. The parts I had to find were the Barrel bushing, recoil spring, recoil spring guide, and slide stop. From the info everyone has provided I believe it must be a ding or something in the grooves of the slide or frame that are giving me trouble. I'll check it out tonight. Thx guys.

 

[Guns and more]

Llama and problem in the same sentence? I'm shocked.

 

[dsv424]

Well I was able to get the gun to smoothly slide back and forth now after slightly filing a couple of rough spots on the slide groove. I then re-assembled it and took it to the range. The first clip of 7 bullets worked good but I noticed that the slide stop started to work itself loose. On the second clip I wasn't watching as closely and by the 4th shot the slide stop fell right out of the gun! So now I have another question. Is there suppose to be something that holds it in place? I went to Numrich and they had a diagram of the gun but it appears to just slide in the hole when you pull the slide back to the notch. Similar to any other 1911 style gun. Unless I'm missing something here, I'm beginning to think this gun really is a POS!

 

[BBBBill]

Been a long time since I messed with one, so I don't remember whether it is exactly the same as a 1911 or varies in some way other than size. One thing that I've run across more than once on a 1911 is a bent/out-of-square slide stop. That will act like a spring and cause the pin to walk out.

 

[dsv424]

Thx for the tip Bill. I'll check that out, hopefully I don't break it if it does need staightening. I was also thinking of cutting a groove on the slide stop post that sticks out of the other side of the slide and putting a keeper ring on it. May look a bit tacky but it would keep it from working its way out. Oh well.

 

[shootistpd27]

Dont file the metal down until you try to pry the back rails apart slightly. Use the marker method to find out where the rails are out of sync but if you file it then the rest of the gun will be off and the accuracy will be compromised even though the gun is not very dependable. I had the same problem with the same gun that I was cleaning for a friend. I dropped the slide and couldnt get it to slide when it was on the frame. Try prying it out gently and then the gun should be back in good shape. This is what I did nd it worked fine afterwards. But to tell you the truth that if given the opportunity you should get rid of that thing as soon as you can. Its really a worthless gun.

 

[Jim K]

The slide stop should not be able to come out except at the dismount point in the slide, but perhaps that gun was not fitted properly. Is the slide stop plunger and spring in place? If so, you might be able to file or grind a vertical cut in the back of the slide stop so the plunger keeps the stop in place.

(This sometimes has to be done with US makers of 1911 clones who treat specs as a joke, so Llama is not the only one to have the problem.)

Jim

 

[dsv424]

After looking closely as I insert the the slide stop without the barrel or slide I have discovered that the slide stop post that goes through the frame is slightly bent. As the slide stop sits square in the hole the post is not in the center of the hole on the other side of the frame(I believe this is why it is wiggling loose as I shoot it). To fix it I am going to have to bend the post slightly and I'm afraid if I try this it will break off. The other option is either cut a groove in the post were it comes out the other side of the slide and put an e-clip on it or as Jim mentioned to cut a groove in the back of the slide stop so the slide stop plunger will hold it in place. But if I do this it would seem that taking the slide stop out for cleaning would be difficult because I would have to compress the plunger to extract it. Has anyone ever bent a slide stop post before and is there a good chance it would break? Decisions! Decisions!

 

[BBBBill]

I've done it with good success. That doesn't mean that I don't sweat bullets every time I do it. That was only on 1911s, so no experience doing it to a Llama. However, I doubt that the Llama is as hard or potentially brittle as a 1911. Check (1) the pin in relation to the back of the lever, (2) the lever over its length, (3) and the shaft of the pin itself for bend. Use a small piece of known square stock to check. You may have to slightly notch/bevel the corner to clear any radius at the root of the pin. I use a vise for straightening. Used appropriately and carefully, you can either straighten the pin, the lever, and/or change the angle between the pin and the lever. Proceed slowly and carefully. I clamp in the vise to whatever tension that I believe will work (starting low), let it sit for a while, then smack the body of the vise (not the jaws) with a hammer to vibrate the heck out of the part (supposed to relax the stress in the part). Don't remember where I learned that, but someone suggested it and it seems to work well for me.

 

[Rex B]

Don't give up on that little llama. those are fun guns. Some were high quality, but there was a spell in the late 20th century where they were built to a price. I consider them mini-1911 kit guns. Once rebuilt, refinished, they make nice, reliable pocket guns. I currently have 6 in various calibers.

couple of thoughts: The plunger tube on some of those is plastic. Replace with metal

Used parts are available from Larry Hall (Texas boy!) at [email protected]

alternately, Lee's gun parts in Irving has a bunch of parts, but they have weird hours.
But try Larry first unless you are in a hurry. He's a nice guy and he likes these guns.

Good luck, hope that helps