Am going to work up a load for my wife to use in an airweight S&W Chief using 110 grain hollow points. Looking for the least recoil in a load that would still get the job done at distances to 10 yards or so. She's not actually recoil shy, but the practicing becomes a bit tedious with hot loads through the little fly-weight pistol. If you have any favorites in this category, could you share? Thanks in advance for any help. (I currently have 231, Unique, Blue Dot, and V310 on hand.)
Load Request - 38 Spl. Light Recoil
- Thread starter Murphster
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Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
Make sure it is going fast enough for those hollowpoints to act like hollowpoints or you may as well use ball. I like 148 gr wadcutters moving about 700fps, they make like dozer when going in and the flat face really needs little expansion.
Quantrill
Member
3.3gr unique under a 148gr wadcutter should do the trick. Quantrill
RON in PA
Member
148 grain hollow base wadcutter with 3.2 grains of 231. For more velocity (and more recoil) use 4.4 grains of 231 with a bevel base wadcutter. Wadcutter loads are known for deep penetration with low recoil.
HankB
Member
Unless you're getting JHPs up to around 1000 ft/sec impact velocity, you probably won't get expansion. If you're loading down for reduced recoil, you've got something that probably is no better than .380 ball ammo.
I'll second the idea of using 148 grain HBWCs, but if you load them backwards, they'll expand at remarkably low velocity. I'd stuff in as much SR4756 as you can stand, commensurate with safe pressure levels. I'd start at about four grains - a mild load. A top load of 6.8 grains will give about 1060 ft/sec out of a 2" barrel, but you don't want to use this in an airweight .38 Special J-frame, it's best reserved for .357 caliber revolvers.
Be advised, if you load light for reduced recoil, you'll also have reduced terminal ballistics as well. You can't get something for nothing.
I'll second the idea of using 148 grain HBWCs, but if you load them backwards, they'll expand at remarkably low velocity. I'd stuff in as much SR4756 as you can stand, commensurate with safe pressure levels. I'd start at about four grains - a mild load. A top load of 6.8 grains will give about 1060 ft/sec out of a 2" barrel, but you don't want to use this in an airweight .38 Special J-frame, it's best reserved for .357 caliber revolvers.
Be advised, if you load light for reduced recoil, you'll also have reduced terminal ballistics as well. You can't get something for nothing.
Jim Watson
Member
I think she needs to separate her carry and practice ammo.
Get whatever hollowpoint suits you best for defense and occasional familiarization and load something milder (but not too soft) for practice.
I don't do recipes but target wadcutters are fine. The 125 grain cast flatpoint as used by Cowboy shooters is good. Or buy some bulk hollowpoints of the same weight as her carry ammo and load them to Winchester's maximum load of 231 in the standard pressure listing; not +P.
I once was in the "combat wadcutter" camp but realized that the midrange target load is not very powerful and a flat front can't make up for lack of horsepower. The old "full range" wadcutter, 148 grains at 850 fps would be ok but are not loaded commercially any more. Do you plan to furnish her handloads for self defense?
A snubby is going to kick with any load I would carry to defend myself and I just have to put up with it. "Getting the job done" at 10 yards or closer calls for MORE power rather than less. An assailant tagged with a smallbore at 50 feet might decide to leave or give up rather than risk the next one between the eyes. At close range he might decide he has to carry through the attack. I carry 158 gr LHP and practice with 158 gr SWC and a top standard pressure load of 231.
Get whatever hollowpoint suits you best for defense and occasional familiarization and load something milder (but not too soft) for practice.
I don't do recipes but target wadcutters are fine. The 125 grain cast flatpoint as used by Cowboy shooters is good. Or buy some bulk hollowpoints of the same weight as her carry ammo and load them to Winchester's maximum load of 231 in the standard pressure listing; not +P.
I once was in the "combat wadcutter" camp but realized that the midrange target load is not very powerful and a flat front can't make up for lack of horsepower. The old "full range" wadcutter, 148 grains at 850 fps would be ok but are not loaded commercially any more. Do you plan to furnish her handloads for self defense?
A snubby is going to kick with any load I would carry to defend myself and I just have to put up with it. "Getting the job done" at 10 yards or closer calls for MORE power rather than less. An assailant tagged with a smallbore at 50 feet might decide to leave or give up rather than risk the next one between the eyes. At close range he might decide he has to carry through the attack. I carry 158 gr LHP and practice with 158 gr SWC and a top standard pressure load of 231.
Thanks for the imput. You're making me change my thinking. I was opting for the lighter HP's for recoil purposes and not necessarily their expansion potential. I am now definitely going to experiment with the heavier wadcutters under a light load. She fired some factory loads yesterday (my 38 spl. dies are on order). She did fine with some Hornady JHP loads toward the end of the session, but she's never going to want to shoot very many of them. I don't have them in front of me but I think they were 125 grains and not + P. Her hands are very small and although I hadn't noticed it before, it precludes her from really wrapping around the grip like guys can do. Lighter practice loads and full power carry loads make sense also. Once I get the loads all put together, I'll let her help decide. She definitely wants to be proficient with this new weapon. Thanks again for the help.
sm
member
Another thought.
Stocks, good stocks that better fit her hand might aid in recoil and target aquisistion...and follow up shots.
I lean toward wood stocks as they don't snag for CCW use. I'm guessing Heretts still takes a hand tracing along with make / model of gun and tracing of grip frame to make grips to fit a person's hand/gun/ needs?
Eagle Grips have worked also for me , others including ladies...
Anyone with a similar gun with different grips she could try?
Just a thought.
Stocks, good stocks that better fit her hand might aid in recoil and target aquisistion...and follow up shots.
I lean toward wood stocks as they don't snag for CCW use. I'm guessing Heretts still takes a hand tracing along with make / model of gun and tracing of grip frame to make grips to fit a person's hand/gun/ needs?
Eagle Grips have worked also for me , others including ladies...
Anyone with a similar gun with different grips she could try?
Just a thought.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
The good folks at http://www.herrett-stocks.com do, indeed, still make stocks to fit one's hand, whether it's large, small, or somewhere in between. Definitely worth the investment and wait!
By the way, I've been having excellent success with 2.5 to 3.0 grains of Tite Group behind 148-grain wadcutters: minimal recoil, outstanding accuracy, and a slightly easier cleaning job afterward than Bullseye.
sm
member
Standing Wolf
Thank you sir!
It has been awhile since I referenced them for such services , a lady in fact with the same need as original poster.
I will make a note of your recipe as well sir!
Thank you sir!
It has been awhile since I referenced them for such services , a lady in fact with the same need as original poster.
I will make a note of your recipe as well sir!
stevesmith7
Member
Thanks Wolf,
I was going to ask around for a Tite Group load for my new snubbie. Of course I already had everything else, empties, dies, etc before I got the gun. 2.5gr seems pretty light, should shoot soft enough for everyone. Need to pick up some Bonus Bullets at the next show.
Steve
I was going to ask around for a Tite Group load for my new snubbie. Of course I already had everything else, empties, dies, etc before I got the gun. 2.5gr seems pretty light, should shoot soft enough for everyone. Need to pick up some Bonus Bullets at the next show.
Steve
saaman
Member
My wife has a chief's special that I load 115 grain cast bullets over 3 grains of bullseye for a very mild load because she has a tender thumb and doesn't enjoy heavy recoil. Then I got her a 9 mm automatic and full charges don't bother her a bit.
GooseGestapo
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
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Do re-think using the 110gr.'s for reduced loads for the snubbie.
If you do go ahead, you'll need to consider this:
1. Don't go below the listed minimum starting loads in the manuals, unless you are attentive and carry a brass range rod with you. The jacketed bullets will stick in the bore if loaded too light, but at much higher loadings than will work OK with lead bullets. (See similar warning in the Speer loading manual). Many .38 revolvers have been destroyed by a squib stuck in the barrel. BTDT! Fortunately all I've done is buldge barrels or split forcing cones.
2. Even with minimum reduced loads, the 110gr bullet will shoot considerably under the POA with the snubbie. The sights are factory regulated to shoot POA/POI with a 158gr bullet at nominal factory loadings.
Heavier bullets (ie: 200gr RN) will shoot somewhat higher, and lighter bullets will shoot somewhat lower (ie: the 110gr bullets you are looking at). Ditto any of the +P loadings. Why? Shorter barrel time, and gun is recoiling while bullet is still transiting the barrel. Lighter bullets, and higher velocities will cause gun to shoot LOWER.
The only exception will be the 148gr wadcutter TARGET loads. These will generally shoot fairly close to POA, and would be my overwhelming recommendation for a light training load for the snubbie.
Several million rookie lawmen, and veterans alike have used this load for training/qualification through the years, myself included.
Why?
IT WORKS !!!!
My load:
BULLET: 148-152gr wadcutter (swaged or cast, your choice. I use both)
POWDER: 2.5gr Bullseye. Proven, accurate, inexpensive! (0.27cc cavity).
PRIMER: FEDERAL SMALL PISTOL. Most sensitive available. Works with light trigger jobs when others won't.
RE: Grips;
You didn't say what grips you had on the gun, but I would suspect that if she was having trouble with them being too big, THEY WEREN'T THE FACTORY GRIPS! These are tiny! And, larger grips will make the gun shoot lower too!
I suggest that you try the factory grips with a Tyler T-grip adapter. I have found this to be far and away the best set up for shooters with smaller hands. Even Ed McGivern used this set-up. He had very short/thick/stubby fingers. He influenced S&W's factory grip offerings for over half a century. I've found this to work well too when wearing gloves on average size hands. Working in the field as a Game Warden for many years, I would switch to this set up in winter as it allowed me to get a good grip while still wearing gloves as I was usually far from the comfort of the heated cab of my truck, and often wearing gloves while operating boats or ATV's. Only bow of trigger guard limited the thickness of gloves. With the GoreTex/thinsulate gloves it's neccessary to remove the gloves to shoot!
If you do go ahead, you'll need to consider this:
1. Don't go below the listed minimum starting loads in the manuals, unless you are attentive and carry a brass range rod with you. The jacketed bullets will stick in the bore if loaded too light, but at much higher loadings than will work OK with lead bullets. (See similar warning in the Speer loading manual). Many .38 revolvers have been destroyed by a squib stuck in the barrel. BTDT! Fortunately all I've done is buldge barrels or split forcing cones.
2. Even with minimum reduced loads, the 110gr bullet will shoot considerably under the POA with the snubbie. The sights are factory regulated to shoot POA/POI with a 158gr bullet at nominal factory loadings.
Heavier bullets (ie: 200gr RN) will shoot somewhat higher, and lighter bullets will shoot somewhat lower (ie: the 110gr bullets you are looking at). Ditto any of the +P loadings. Why? Shorter barrel time, and gun is recoiling while bullet is still transiting the barrel. Lighter bullets, and higher velocities will cause gun to shoot LOWER.
The only exception will be the 148gr wadcutter TARGET loads. These will generally shoot fairly close to POA, and would be my overwhelming recommendation for a light training load for the snubbie.
Several million rookie lawmen, and veterans alike have used this load for training/qualification through the years, myself included.
Why?
IT WORKS !!!!
My load:
BULLET: 148-152gr wadcutter (swaged or cast, your choice. I use both)
POWDER: 2.5gr Bullseye. Proven, accurate, inexpensive! (0.27cc cavity).
PRIMER: FEDERAL SMALL PISTOL. Most sensitive available. Works with light trigger jobs when others won't.
RE: Grips;
You didn't say what grips you had on the gun, but I would suspect that if she was having trouble with them being too big, THEY WEREN'T THE FACTORY GRIPS! These are tiny! And, larger grips will make the gun shoot lower too!
I suggest that you try the factory grips with a Tyler T-grip adapter. I have found this to be far and away the best set up for shooters with smaller hands. Even Ed McGivern used this set-up. He had very short/thick/stubby fingers. He influenced S&W's factory grip offerings for over half a century. I've found this to work well too when wearing gloves on average size hands. Working in the field as a Game Warden for many years, I would switch to this set up in winter as it allowed me to get a good grip while still wearing gloves as I was usually far from the comfort of the heated cab of my truck, and often wearing gloves while operating boats or ATV's. Only bow of trigger guard limited the thickness of gloves. With the GoreTex/thinsulate gloves it's neccessary to remove the gloves to shoot!
Thanks again for all the tips. I've got some light load 110 grains loaded and ready to test. I'm waiting on some 148 grain wc's that I ordered to arrive. Hope to get the wc's in and loaded and my wife to the range in the next week. My wife extends her thanks as well to all who took an interest in helping her find the right load for her pistol.
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