Magnus1959
Member
I'm sure this has been asked before but will it wear out your springs in your magazines if you keep them loaded?
Loaded magazines?
- Thread starter Magnus1959
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SamG.
Member
It all depends on the type of mag it is. If you are using Ak mags they will last (the springs) years loaded. If you are using say a pistal mag, I probably wouldn't load it more than a month without relieving the spring tension, but I've seen glock mags loaded for a year still function normaly. It all depends on the mag and how long it's loaded. I wouldn't store them longterm though.
Sam
Samcrew590
Member
From what I've found you wear out the springs by compressing and decompressing them, not by leaving them in one state (loaded or not). I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain further. I just know it hasn't affected my magazines by leaving them loaded. Just make sure to test them on occasion with a trip to the range.
Jay
Jay
nalioth
Member
A quality magazine can remain loaded for years w/o any deleterious effects.
As noted above, it's the constant change of compressed to uncompressed (relatively) that drives spring failure.
There are hundreds of documented instances of folks pulling Granddads old WWI or WWII [whatever gun] out of the closet with a full magazine and it operating just fine . . .
As noted above, it's the constant change of compressed to uncompressed (relatively) that drives spring failure.
There are hundreds of documented instances of folks pulling Granddads old WWI or WWII [whatever gun] out of the closet with a full magazine and it operating just fine . . .
riceboy72
Member
Your magazine springs are meant to be compressed; as others have said, the action of compressing then releasing that tension is what tends to wear the springs out. Most magazines made today have quality springs that can endure periods of being loaded. Otherwise, you can order sturdier, more robust springs that certainly can handle being compressed for extended periods of time.
357wheelgunner
Member
Different guns also react differently. Like someone else said, AK47 can be kept loaded for years and still work. My friend's uzi was the same way. His Sig 226, however, didn't work with 1 year old mag springs. I'm guessing that the speed of the action has something to do with it.
Semi-autos have to have perfect harmony between the recoil spring and magazine spring. If one or the other is out of whack, it can malfunction.
I keep all of my magazines (auto pistol and shotgun tube) downloaded by one round.
Semi-autos have to have perfect harmony between the recoil spring and magazine spring. If one or the other is out of whack, it can malfunction.
I keep all of my magazines (auto pistol and shotgun tube) downloaded by one round.
possum
Member
in my experience mag springs wear out from getting compressed and released, and not from staying compressed.
highorder
Member
every servicable magazine I have is loaded, unless I am fresh out of ammo in that caliber. You might have to leave in a hurry someday.
That day could be tomorrow.
I bring mags empty mags home from the range; thats about it.
That day could be tomorrow.
I bring mags empty mags home from the range; thats about it.
Mandirigma
Member
same boat with everyone else, magazine springs get worn from compression
Killermonkey21
Member
Yup. In My experience, brand new AR15 magazines, even over in the sandbox, when left loaded tend to work fine, even after months loaded and left alone. But the old ones with worn out compressed/uncompressed springs are the worn out ones.
RNB65
Member
Nope.
Happiness Is A Warm Gun
Member
I had 10 M-4 mags loaded for entire year in Iraq.
I unloaded them like 3 times to clean grit out of the magazines.
They worked just fine.
About 8 months in the had chance to go to range and shoot off old ammo. Didn't have one Failure.
Mags are designed to remain compressed. It is use that wears them out. Once worn out you need a new spring doesn't matter if you keep them loaded or unloaded.
I unloaded them like 3 times to clean grit out of the magazines.
They worked just fine.
About 8 months in the had chance to go to range and shoot off old ammo. Didn't have one Failure.
Mags are designed to remain compressed. It is use that wears them out. Once worn out you need a new spring doesn't matter if you keep them loaded or unloaded.
Short answer: no.
The learned opinion around here is that springs wear out from being compressed AND relaxed.
A spring compressed will not wear out, but repeated compressions and relaxing does wear it out.
How long this takes is really up in the air.
fastbolt
Member
Perennial subject which never results in any agreement. Lots of different opinions and related experiences can be found.
Different manufacturers express different opinions, as well.
I've seen magazine springs in service-type pistols remain serviceable anywhere from a few years to several years when left fully loaded. There's always the possibility of a defective or out-of-spec spring, though, as well as somebody damaging one.
I've known of manufacturers recommending magazine spring replacement in their armorer classes differently.
Some recommendations have been based upon considering & observing spring performance in actual live-fire conditions and/or in bench checks/inspections, and some have involved considering the number of rounds actually fired through a particular pistol and magazine combination, as well as how long the service magazine was being left fully loaded.
Sometimes the design of the magazine and spring may have an influence on a recommendation, too.
In my last Glock class the instructor discussed comparing a 'used' spring's length to a new/unused one kept aside as an exemplar, as well as doing a couple of bench checks with EMPTY pistols (rapidly running the slide to see if the magazine spring will tension the follower firmly enough to engage the slide stop lever to lock the slide open, and checking to see the spring will cause the empty magazine to noticeably jump 'upward' when the magazine catch button is depressed on an empty pistol when it's held upside down).
Glock is more specific when it comes to replacement of recoil springs, though. The factory recommendation is presently to replace recoil springs every 3,000 rounds ... although you can also hear some Glock employees mention an even shorter replacement interval when asked.
In recent years S&W has commonly recommended recoil & magazine spring replacement either every 5,000 rounds fired, or else after 5 years of a magazine being left loaded. One time when I asked about this I was told that this is likely a conservative recommendation.
FWIW, a recommendation previously taught in an earlier S&W armorer class used to involve trying to 'shake' loose the top round of a fully loaded magazine by a 'wrist-snap', and if the round was dislodged the spring should be replaced. At that time we were told that S&W has maintained an inventory of fully loaded magazines in one of their vaults for many years, and had been engaged in frequently removing and testing magazines which had been left fully loaded for various numbers of years. We were told of magazines which had demonstrated normal function after more than 10 years of having been left fully loaded.
On the other hand, I know an armorer for another agency who issues S&W pistols chambered in .40 S&W, and who once told me that his inventory of issued pistols had started to exhibit feeding issues once approx 7 years of in-service use had been reached. I was using one of his magazines in a 4006 one time, and sure enough, the older magazine spring caused it to exhibit feeding failures while a new magazine spring in a similar old 4006 magazine exhibited normal feeding & functioning (it had the early yellow follower in it when it was brought to me, which I replaced with the current blue follower when I replaced the spring).
The instructor in my last Colt class was still recommending that 30-rd AR magazines be left down-loaded by 2 rounds in LE rifles/carbines which are left sitting in patrol vehicles for months at a time (apparently presuming this would continue to happen long term), and recommended replacement of 1911 magazine & recoil springs approx every 1,800-2,500 rounds (depending on the pressure of the ammunition being used), and to consider the potential for decreased service life of the springs when +P ammunition is used.
Now, lots of folks like to post about their experiences with pistol magazines which had reportedly been left loaded since either of the two World Wars, and how they functioned fine when used in a pistol in the present day. Fine. Doesn't necessarily mean all of those era's 1911 springs will exhibit the same functioning under the same conditions, though.
Matter of fact, this World War era magazine topic was even mentioned in the Colt armorer class. The instructor said that it was certainly possible an old .45 pistol magazine which had been left fully compressed for such a long time might feed properly ... but that the chances that it would continue to repeatedly feed normally were probably significantly reduced because of the stresses involved in it having remained fully compressed for so long.
I often think of threads like this when I'm teaching a CCW class & qualification range. More often than not, the firing line has to wait while somebody resolves a feeding issue which appears to be caused by a weakened magazine spring. It's not uncommon to have classes where this may involve more than a single shooter using a semiauto pistol, too. I remember one class where 4 guys were using various magazines which had springs which seemingly weren't keeping the rounds rising fast & firmly enough to be properly fed. It's an unusual (but enjoyable) class where someone doesn't have a magazine-related feeding problem related to what appears to be a weakened magazine spring.
Also, while there have been some folks in CCW classes who have claimed to be frequent shooters (including a couple folks who enjoy competitive shooting pursuits), the majority of the folks whom I ask about their practice regimens generally admit to only shooting their CCW weapons either for the qualification class itself (every 2, 3 or 4 years in CA), or just in preparation for the class/renewal qualification. It's not like a lot of them are wearing out their magazine springs from a lot of shooting.
Replacing magazine (& recoil springs) might be considered as relatively inexpensive insurance when it comes to preventive maintenance, especially when it comes to helping keep semiauto pistols which are used as dedicated defensive weapons in normal, good functioning condition.
So is periodic inspection, cleaning & lubrication, too.
Just my thoughts.
Different manufacturers express different opinions, as well.
I've seen magazine springs in service-type pistols remain serviceable anywhere from a few years to several years when left fully loaded. There's always the possibility of a defective or out-of-spec spring, though, as well as somebody damaging one.
I've known of manufacturers recommending magazine spring replacement in their armorer classes differently.
Some recommendations have been based upon considering & observing spring performance in actual live-fire conditions and/or in bench checks/inspections, and some have involved considering the number of rounds actually fired through a particular pistol and magazine combination, as well as how long the service magazine was being left fully loaded.
Sometimes the design of the magazine and spring may have an influence on a recommendation, too.
In my last Glock class the instructor discussed comparing a 'used' spring's length to a new/unused one kept aside as an exemplar, as well as doing a couple of bench checks with EMPTY pistols (rapidly running the slide to see if the magazine spring will tension the follower firmly enough to engage the slide stop lever to lock the slide open, and checking to see the spring will cause the empty magazine to noticeably jump 'upward' when the magazine catch button is depressed on an empty pistol when it's held upside down).
Glock is more specific when it comes to replacement of recoil springs, though. The factory recommendation is presently to replace recoil springs every 3,000 rounds ... although you can also hear some Glock employees mention an even shorter replacement interval when asked.
In recent years S&W has commonly recommended recoil & magazine spring replacement either every 5,000 rounds fired, or else after 5 years of a magazine being left loaded. One time when I asked about this I was told that this is likely a conservative recommendation.
FWIW, a recommendation previously taught in an earlier S&W armorer class used to involve trying to 'shake' loose the top round of a fully loaded magazine by a 'wrist-snap', and if the round was dislodged the spring should be replaced. At that time we were told that S&W has maintained an inventory of fully loaded magazines in one of their vaults for many years, and had been engaged in frequently removing and testing magazines which had been left fully loaded for various numbers of years. We were told of magazines which had demonstrated normal function after more than 10 years of having been left fully loaded.
On the other hand, I know an armorer for another agency who issues S&W pistols chambered in .40 S&W, and who once told me that his inventory of issued pistols had started to exhibit feeding issues once approx 7 years of in-service use had been reached. I was using one of his magazines in a 4006 one time, and sure enough, the older magazine spring caused it to exhibit feeding failures while a new magazine spring in a similar old 4006 magazine exhibited normal feeding & functioning (it had the early yellow follower in it when it was brought to me, which I replaced with the current blue follower when I replaced the spring).
The instructor in my last Colt class was still recommending that 30-rd AR magazines be left down-loaded by 2 rounds in LE rifles/carbines which are left sitting in patrol vehicles for months at a time (apparently presuming this would continue to happen long term), and recommended replacement of 1911 magazine & recoil springs approx every 1,800-2,500 rounds (depending on the pressure of the ammunition being used), and to consider the potential for decreased service life of the springs when +P ammunition is used.
Now, lots of folks like to post about their experiences with pistol magazines which had reportedly been left loaded since either of the two World Wars, and how they functioned fine when used in a pistol in the present day. Fine. Doesn't necessarily mean all of those era's 1911 springs will exhibit the same functioning under the same conditions, though.
Matter of fact, this World War era magazine topic was even mentioned in the Colt armorer class. The instructor said that it was certainly possible an old .45 pistol magazine which had been left fully compressed for such a long time might feed properly ... but that the chances that it would continue to repeatedly feed normally were probably significantly reduced because of the stresses involved in it having remained fully compressed for so long.
I often think of threads like this when I'm teaching a CCW class & qualification range. More often than not, the firing line has to wait while somebody resolves a feeding issue which appears to be caused by a weakened magazine spring. It's not uncommon to have classes where this may involve more than a single shooter using a semiauto pistol, too. I remember one class where 4 guys were using various magazines which had springs which seemingly weren't keeping the rounds rising fast & firmly enough to be properly fed. It's an unusual (but enjoyable) class where someone doesn't have a magazine-related feeding problem related to what appears to be a weakened magazine spring.
Also, while there have been some folks in CCW classes who have claimed to be frequent shooters (including a couple folks who enjoy competitive shooting pursuits), the majority of the folks whom I ask about their practice regimens generally admit to only shooting their CCW weapons either for the qualification class itself (every 2, 3 or 4 years in CA), or just in preparation for the class/renewal qualification. It's not like a lot of them are wearing out their magazine springs from a lot of shooting.
Replacing magazine (& recoil springs) might be considered as relatively inexpensive insurance when it comes to preventive maintenance, especially when it comes to helping keep semiauto pistols which are used as dedicated defensive weapons in normal, good functioning condition.
So is periodic inspection, cleaning & lubrication, too.
Just my thoughts.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I have personally bought two GI 1911's from estates with WWII ammo still in the magazines.
They worked, and continue to work flawlessly.
I also have bought two pre-war Colt Woodsman pistols from estates with pre-war copper case ammo in the mags.
They worked, and continue to work flawlessly.
That's four guns, left fully loaded, for between 60 - 70 years!
I have Vietnam era M-16 mags that have been left loaded since 1970, and they work fine when I shoot them dry and change ammo in them every year or so.
I do down-load AR mags by two, but not to prolong spring life.
I strip two rounds for the same reason GI's started doing it in Vietnam in the beginning.
It's just that an over-loaded AR mag can fail to seat with the bolt closed, and fail to strip the top round if loaded with bolt open.
It is possible to sometimes get an AR mag that will hold 21 or 31 rounds, and if not corrected, the gun won't run.
Strip two rounds, and you are assured the mag will function 100%!
My Glock 23 has been different however.
Mags for it left fully loaded got new springs after 12 years!
Oh, they still worked fine, but just "felt" kinda soft.
The mags I use at the range wear out springs at a much faster rate then the ones I leave loaded for SHTF situations.
Bottom line, leave them loaded, or not.
Just don't strip the rounds out every week or so to let them "rest".
Springs don't rest.
They wear out from compression cycles.
rcmodel
They worked, and continue to work flawlessly.
I also have bought two pre-war Colt Woodsman pistols from estates with pre-war copper case ammo in the mags.
They worked, and continue to work flawlessly.
That's four guns, left fully loaded, for between 60 - 70 years!
I have Vietnam era M-16 mags that have been left loaded since 1970, and they work fine when I shoot them dry and change ammo in them every year or so.
I do down-load AR mags by two, but not to prolong spring life.
I strip two rounds for the same reason GI's started doing it in Vietnam in the beginning.
It's just that an over-loaded AR mag can fail to seat with the bolt closed, and fail to strip the top round if loaded with bolt open.
It is possible to sometimes get an AR mag that will hold 21 or 31 rounds, and if not corrected, the gun won't run.
Strip two rounds, and you are assured the mag will function 100%!
My Glock 23 has been different however.
Mags for it left fully loaded got new springs after 12 years!
Oh, they still worked fine, but just "felt" kinda soft.
The mags I use at the range wear out springs at a much faster rate then the ones I leave loaded for SHTF situations.
Bottom line, leave them loaded, or not.
Just don't strip the rounds out every week or so to let them "rest".
Springs don't rest.
They wear out from compression cycles.
rcmodel
fastbolt
Member
I've also acquired some WW/Korean vintage magazines which functioned normally after having presumably been left loaded for all those years. Didn't say it couldn't happen.
Neither did the Colt instructor. Neither did any of the other manufacturer reps, engineers, repair technicians, armorer instructors or a spring manufacturer I've queried on this subject.
On the other hand, none of those folks would guarantee an inexpensive spring's continued ability to provide intended normal service beyond reasonable (and presumably cautiously conservative) limits, with the implication that being left fully compressed for an extended number of years would contribute to the lessening of the spring's ability to exert desired tension at some point. Where that point may be is what's open to much debate and conjecture, and no small amount of variable anecdotal experience.
Then again, I've seen others of similar vintage which didn't offer such wonderful reliability after having been left loaded, too. Listened to a lot of other folks in the field offer similar examples, too.
But this is a bit off the subject of modern magazine springs and their useful service life under different circumstances, such as being left fully loaded for long periods of time.
Glad to her your G23 magazines are still working for your needs.
FWIW, though, I've personally observed Glock magazines exhibit weakened magazine springs in various models/caliber across a range of different time periods, and with guns which were being carried by folks who claimed they didn't shoot them often. Some have been as soon as 3-4 years, and some as long as a reported 10 years.
The armorer instructors generally make it simpler for their target audience. You want to make sure your people's guns are going to function as well as can be expected? Change the springs as recommended, or as may be required based upon observing any functioning issues that may occur (regardless of how soon that may occur, if it does appear to be spring-related). Personally, I'd rather not wait until the first spring-related issue arises, since there's no way to know when the first functional indication of a weakened magazine spring may occur - on the range or somewhere else.
Now, who knows what would be told to commercial customers if they call back and ask the customer service folks such questions? Sometimes I've called 'cold', without identifying myself as an armorer and asked customer service folks such questions and got the same answer as I did in an armorer class. Sometimes I've been given a different answer than I heard in the armorer class, too. Other times I've been told they didn't know and I was transferred to a technician for an answer.
Myself? I've pretty much decided that I'll err on the conservative side of things when it comes to spring replacement in guns dedicated to defensive use - (compared to range enjoyment use) - both for my personally-owned guns and those of other folks for whom I'm responsible for maintaining their guns.
I certainly don't claim to have the definitive answer, and have heard so much from an entire range of folks who ought to have much more experience and knowledge in such things than me ... that I've just decided to take the path of least resistance and replace things like springs either as often as recommended by a manufacturer, or even sooner.
The last thing I want to happen is for a magazine (or recoil) spring in one of my guns, or in an issued gun for which I share responsibility for maintenance, to weaken and fail to provide for normal functioning ... and then have someone come behind me (if it's my gun) and explain how a spring was worn and too weakened for its intended function, or, if it's another cop's gun, explain to the family why I wanted to wring some extra service use out of a spring which hadn't yet exhibited a failure on the firing line.
FWIW, I'd prefer to replace a spring before it exhibits a failure related to weakening, since there's no way to predict when and where that first spring-related 'functional failure' may occur ... on a range's firing line or out in the street. Admittedly, some failures may occur without warning ... out-of-spec/defective part, unintentional damage caused by the user, etc. ... but aside from those hopefully infrequently occurring unpredictable instances, I just prefer to replace these types of spring before a functioning issue ever occurs.
Not being a licensed gunsmith, nor employed by any of the firearms manufacturers, nor be anything even remotely resembling any sort of an 'expert' at anything, nor responsible for anyone's guns other than my own or those of my agency, I would generally suggest that someone who has such a question call the manufacturer of their particular firearm and/or magazine and ask the company what they recommend. That would be a good place to start.
Springs are relatively inexpensive, all things considered (and especially when considered against the cost of buying ammunition at the present), and most owners don't shoot anywhere nearly as much as the folks who have an interest in firearms sufficient to allow them to discover that these firearms forums even exist.
I'd still like to see all of the older, little-used (infrequently fired) pistols brought through our CCW range exhibit normal functioning when it comes to their magazines/magazine springs every time, too. (Okay, might as well wish for all the other maintenance & ammunition related issues suddenly no longer occurring. ) Hasn't happened over the course of several years, though, and I'm not holding my breath.
Neither did the Colt instructor. Neither did any of the other manufacturer reps, engineers, repair technicians, armorer instructors or a spring manufacturer I've queried on this subject.
On the other hand, none of those folks would guarantee an inexpensive spring's continued ability to provide intended normal service beyond reasonable (and presumably cautiously conservative) limits, with the implication that being left fully compressed for an extended number of years would contribute to the lessening of the spring's ability to exert desired tension at some point. Where that point may be is what's open to much debate and conjecture, and no small amount of variable anecdotal experience.
Then again, I've seen others of similar vintage which didn't offer such wonderful reliability after having been left loaded, too. Listened to a lot of other folks in the field offer similar examples, too.
But this is a bit off the subject of modern magazine springs and their useful service life under different circumstances, such as being left fully loaded for long periods of time.
Glad to her your G23 magazines are still working for your needs.
FWIW, though, I've personally observed Glock magazines exhibit weakened magazine springs in various models/caliber across a range of different time periods, and with guns which were being carried by folks who claimed they didn't shoot them often. Some have been as soon as 3-4 years, and some as long as a reported 10 years.
The armorer instructors generally make it simpler for their target audience. You want to make sure your people's guns are going to function as well as can be expected? Change the springs as recommended, or as may be required based upon observing any functioning issues that may occur (regardless of how soon that may occur, if it does appear to be spring-related). Personally, I'd rather not wait until the first spring-related issue arises, since there's no way to know when the first functional indication of a weakened magazine spring may occur - on the range or somewhere else.
Now, who knows what would be told to commercial customers if they call back and ask the customer service folks such questions? Sometimes I've called 'cold', without identifying myself as an armorer and asked customer service folks such questions and got the same answer as I did in an armorer class. Sometimes I've been given a different answer than I heard in the armorer class, too. Other times I've been told they didn't know and I was transferred to a technician for an answer.
Myself? I've pretty much decided that I'll err on the conservative side of things when it comes to spring replacement in guns dedicated to defensive use - (compared to range enjoyment use) - both for my personally-owned guns and those of other folks for whom I'm responsible for maintaining their guns.
I certainly don't claim to have the definitive answer, and have heard so much from an entire range of folks who ought to have much more experience and knowledge in such things than me ... that I've just decided to take the path of least resistance and replace things like springs either as often as recommended by a manufacturer, or even sooner.
The last thing I want to happen is for a magazine (or recoil) spring in one of my guns, or in an issued gun for which I share responsibility for maintenance, to weaken and fail to provide for normal functioning ... and then have someone come behind me (if it's my gun) and explain how a spring was worn and too weakened for its intended function, or, if it's another cop's gun, explain to the family why I wanted to wring some extra service use out of a spring which hadn't yet exhibited a failure on the firing line.
FWIW, I'd prefer to replace a spring before it exhibits a failure related to weakening, since there's no way to predict when and where that first spring-related 'functional failure' may occur ... on a range's firing line or out in the street. Admittedly, some failures may occur without warning ... out-of-spec/defective part, unintentional damage caused by the user, etc. ... but aside from those hopefully infrequently occurring unpredictable instances, I just prefer to replace these types of spring before a functioning issue ever occurs.
Not being a licensed gunsmith, nor employed by any of the firearms manufacturers, nor be anything even remotely resembling any sort of an 'expert' at anything, nor responsible for anyone's guns other than my own or those of my agency, I would generally suggest that someone who has such a question call the manufacturer of their particular firearm and/or magazine and ask the company what they recommend. That would be a good place to start.
Springs are relatively inexpensive, all things considered (and especially when considered against the cost of buying ammunition at the present), and most owners don't shoot anywhere nearly as much as the folks who have an interest in firearms sufficient to allow them to discover that these firearms forums even exist.
I'd still like to see all of the older, little-used (infrequently fired) pistols brought through our CCW range exhibit normal functioning when it comes to their magazines/magazine springs every time, too. (Okay, might as well wish for all the other maintenance & ammunition related issues suddenly no longer occurring.
) Hasn't happened over the course of several years, though, and I'm not holding my breath.
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HisSoldier
Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2007
- Messages
- 1,330
Here's an article on it, FWIW;
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_163_27/ai_99130369
I swapped out the springs in my 1911 mags that were shorter than new ones, but! they still worked fine.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_163_27/ai_99130369
I swapped out the springs in my 1911 mags that were shorter than new ones, but! they still worked fine.
fastbolt
Member
See what I mean about the many opinions and related experiences?
It always comes down to folks doing whatever they think is 'right', based upon whatever sources they wish.
No biggie. The way the world turns ...
It always comes down to folks doing whatever they think is 'right', based upon whatever sources they wish.
No biggie. The way the world turns ...
- Status
