Loading 45-70 for a Vintage US 1884 Springfield Trap Door Cadet Rifle

[Dane R. Marley]

I am going to start reload for my US Springfield 1884 Trap Door. It is almost a Museum Quality Rifle.

I have been looking at videos on UT but I would like to hear actual experiences from members who reload and shoot vintagae 45-70 rifles.

My LGS sells 405 grain .459 lead flat tips its coated poly or uncoated. I think I would prefer the uncoated, strait lead with lube. I also have 250 virgin Star Line 45-70 cases and I plan to purchase a set of RCBS Cowboy Dies. I may buy a Lee Crimp Die, I do not like seating and crimping in one step.

I am looking at using Trail Boss or 4895 powders.

Please post your opions and thoughts.

 

[Engineer1911]

Use the Springfield Trapdoor Rifle data in the Lyman Rifle and Pistol Reloading Manual. Those are safe loads that will not harm you or your rifle.

 

[tark]

As a collector, you know what I would say, so I won't bother saying it. It's your rifle so shoot away.

These days, with powder so hard to find, I have been using powders that are not usually used much in a 45-70. I have been using IMR 4227 for my 385 grain cast bullet loads. A bit fast for the cartridge, but 35 grains works well. But I don't know what pressure level it is at. Lyman lists one combination using IMR 4064 (49 grains) and a 400 gr. JSP but it is just barely over the line for a trap door. (19,000 PSI ) Reloder 7 ( RX-7) is a near perfect powder for any 45-70. It is listed in every bullet weight and loads can range from mild to wild. 30 grains with a 500 grain bullet produces around 1100 FPS @ 11,000 PSI. Quite safe in a trapdoor. With the 400 grain cast, 37 grains will get you over 1500 FPS @ 16,400 PSI. This load is listed in the Lyman reloading manual as safe for trapdoors.

If you really want to have fun, shoot black powder, or a good substitute. I like Triple 7. The latter is non corrosive and easy to clean. You don't have to worry about pressures with black, as long as you remember: fill the case with no air space left. Slight compression when seating the bullet. Use a card wad over the powder. Use 2F for the heavier bullets and 3F for bullets 350 grains or less. Use magnum primers and, very important, use a bullet with lots of grease grooves. Use a soft bullet lube like SPG or even Bore Butter.

One word of warning, Avoid 4F entirely! There are no substitute powders made in 4F, but the real thing is intended for priming the pan on a flintlock. Filling a 45-70 case with 4F is an invitation for some serious pressure problems. The finer the granulation the faster black powder burns. 4F is pretty close to blasting meal and it is almost never used to propel a bullet.

I load mostly for my one-off 45-70 rolling block I made from a block of 1045. It will eat anything a Ruger #1 eats, so I don't pay much attention to trapdoor pressures, but the loads I listed come straight from the latest Lyman Manual. I would post a pic of the page, but I think that would be copyright infringement, so I won't.

 

[troy fairweather]

Black powder, trail boss much higher pressure them people think.

 

[MEHavey]

Real black powder -- not smokeless of any kind with that vintage a weapon
A 0.060" or two 0.030" card wads compressing the powder about that same wad width
SOFT lead,
Bare lead
Lubed with SOFT black powder lubricant.
large pistol primer
Don't bother with separate crimp die
(See bottom of this Post)

Pour hot soapy water down barrel afterward, thoroughly dry patch, and leave oiled.
Easier to clean than smokeless

 

[bear166]

As mentioned, if you follow the Lyman manual, I think you will be okay with smokeless loads, but also as mentioned, you should use black powder for optimal fun (and the bonus of not having to worry about what you're loading).

It's your gun so I'm not going to tell you not to shoot smokeless, but it's my belief that most people who do just don't want to deal with cleaning the black powder. BP is messy for sure, but it's way easier to clean than smokeless, so if that's the concern, just know that a little bit of hot water will clean that bore to almost a shine. Ballistol will take care of the rest in short order.

 

[Dane R. Marley]

Thank You All for your input!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

RI am looking at using Trail Boss or 4895 powders.

Please post your opinions and thoughts.

IMO 4895 is too slow a powder for 45-70 Trapdoor ammo.

I load a 405gr cast bullet for the Trapdoor. When IMR SR-4759 was available that's what I used exclusively. Then I switched to IMR 4198 until I tried AA5744. I now use nothing else, it's excellent in Trapdoor class 45-70 ammo, IMO of course.

 

[LouB]

My load for 45-70 in trapdoor Springfield rifles is cast Lee 405 gr HBRN bullets, Starline brass, WLR primers, unique 11.0 gr, no filler/wads/etc.
gives 1000FPS in usual long barrel trapdoor. Trapdoor safe pressures

Loading Cartridges For The Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine by J.S. And Pat Wolf 3rd edition is a great source of info
www.the45-70book.com

Lou

 

[Jim Watson]

Hodgdon shows loads for .45-70 with 4895 for some reason lighter with H than IMR.

I don't think Trail Boss is suitable.

Me?
I like smaller calibers .38-55 and .40-65 and I load black.

 

[johnjohn]

I have fired Remington factory loads. In my Trapdoor Springfield. No ill effects. Had to have the local hardware order them for me. Back in the "good 'ol days" bout 50 yrs. ago.

 

[Charlie98]

IMO 4895 is too slow a powder for 45-70 Trapdoor ammo.

Waaaay too slow.

As was mentioned... IMR or H 4198, AA5744, or RL7. At the velocities you will be generating, just shoot cast lead.... no need for coating or anything. DO NOT CRIMP your cartridges... there is no need, and it's possible a crimp could be a detriment. Cowboy dies are a good idea... that's what I use, if only for the expander die.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Waaaay too slow.

As was mentioned... IMR or H 4198, AA5744, or RL7. At the velocities you will be generating, just shoot cast lead.... no need for coating or anything. DO NOT CRIMP your cartridges... there is no need, and it's possible a crimp could be a detriment. Cowboy dies are a good idea... that's what I use, if only for the expander die.

Great minds think alike lol ...

 

[Dane R. Marley]

I ordered a Lyman 50th Hardback. It should be here by 8/13/2021

 

[AJC1]

If your looking for fun with no punishment trail boss or tin star might be worth your efforts to track down. Trail boss will not generate velosity I would hunt with but are so fun you will be concerned how much lead your using.

 

[Dane R. Marley]

My Lyman 50th arrived yesterday.

 

[Edcnh]

The Lyman 50th edition has a section for trapdoor rifles. It should be safe in you rifle but for a rifle of that age I would consider black powder or a black powder substitute.

 

[CoRifleman]

Slug the bore.

Too hard, poor lube and undersized will lead the bore in a hurry.

BullShop - and other places - will make you some bullets in nearly any dia you want, and the right hardness.

 

[Jim Watson]

Thanks for BullShop, they have both my BPCRs.