Loading for supressed 9mm handgun

[crimsoncomet]

So after a long wait... I finally got my tax stamp for my suppressor. Now the fun of working up loads begins.

I'm one of those guys that does not load to max loads usually. The only gun I load to max is my 308 ltr. And they still are a bit warm for my comfort level, but are tack drivers. Anyway, I have found that to make my glock 17 (stormlake barrel) and M&P (factory threaded barrel) I have to load at the max of the scale. Like I said I don't like this. The glock works with lower loads than the M&P. The barrel is about 1/2" longer and the chamber is Definatley tighter. I assume this has something to do with that. Or maybe the gun is just more broke in.

Can you guys check my loads?
147 gr Montana Gold
OAL 1.140"
Win SP PRIMER
Two loads that run both guns:
4.0 gr solo 1000
3.7gr N320

The solo load is over max by .1gr. The N320 load is under max by .1gr. I just wish I could run them a bit lower. I know this is the wrong section, but may e spring work is needed for the M&P? Lighter? Thanks for any input. Maybe I can get these rounds over the chrono soon.

 

[jmorris]

I run 3.1 of N310 with a berrys 147 @ 1.160" as a uspsa/idpa "minor" load and for use in suppressed guns. If I were to use N320 the charge weight would be closer to titegroup, 3.2-3.3g. Using FMJ's you'll need a bit more to get the same speed but 3.7 is further than I would go.

I am not sure if your working up loads using a can or not. Depending on the can/booster a load that won't cycle in the pistol alone might work just fine with the can on.

 

[mstreddy]

My load is Speer 147 TMJ with 3.5 grains of Win 231. Don't have OAL with me. Cycled perfect in Glock 17 with and without can, Uzi FA with/without can, Glock 26 no can, Colt 1991 with can. And I think there were a couple of others that I shot them in.
In the suppressed guns, they were sure quiet. No hearing protection needed at all.

Hope this helps... I'll add the COAL I used when I get home later today.

EM

 

[crimsoncomet]

Thanks for the input guys. I have shot much lower loads without the can on. Once I put the can on, they won't cycle. My oal looks pretty long. I'm wondering if this is why I am having to load more powder.

 

[mstreddy]

Does your can have a LID or Nielsen device? If not, that may be an issue. 9mm in most platforms needs to have the LID for proper function.
At least, what I have found to be true.

EM

OK, found an earlier post of mine that had the COAL. It's set for 1.115" with those Speers.

EM

 

[crimsoncomet]

Thanks mstreddy. I am using an LCD Nielsen device. I heard they can sometimes use a good break in period. I bet if I shorten the oal of my rounds up, I can using less powder due to pressure increase.

 

[rfwobbly]

With a 147gr bullet in the short 9mm case, you need a longer OAL 1) to make sure you're not compressing the load, 2) and remember that the 147gr is much longer than the average 115gr so a long OAL is going to automatically give you adequate case-to-bullet support anyway. I'd be using an OAL of 1.160" if the chamber will allow it.

Once the OAL is choosen, if it feeds good, then stick with it. Vary only the powder thereafter to increase the power. Changing OAL to increase power is an awful way to go about things. For one, you may be changing the feed characteristics. And too, the powder you save will be in the pennies. Powder is already your VERY cheapest component to begin with. You could save far more money by changing primers or bullets.

All the best.

 

[crimsoncomet]

Yep, it feeds great in three different type of guns. I think the reason that I am having to load a bit more powder, is because I am loading longer than most data shows. The only benefit I can see from loading shorter with less powder is to reduce sound while suppressed.

 

[mstreddy]

CrimsonComet,

The OAL I'm using is based on Lyman's 49th. They actually list the 147 Gr TMJ, which is what I'm using. They call for a range of 3.5 - 4.1 for Win231. The table doesn't have N320, but does have N340. It ranges from 3.9 - 4.4.

Hornady 7th Ed has 2 bullets listed in the 147 section with OALs of 1.1 for the XTP to 1.165 for the RN style. They don't list N320 but have N350.

As I mentioned the 1.115 length worked very well for the guns I shot them in.
Let us know how it goes for you.

EM

 

[jmorris]

OAL is up to you but don't try my N310 load above with a shorter OAL (or with a true FMJ like MG bullets). The load is "soft" but quite high pressure, as it is.

With very fast powders the "impulse" pressure is quite high or all burned up quickly. The above load works great in everything I have tried it in except the ported barrel of the MP5 SD. The ports are there to make supersonic 115 grain loads subsonic but bleeds too much pressure from a fast powder subsonic load to cycle the action.

 

[rfwobbly]

I think the reason that I am having to load a bit more powder, is because I am loading longer than most data shows.

That would be correct. You use the test data simply as a guide to keep you in the safe zone. From there you use small incremental changes until you find the result you're seeking.

The only benefit I can see from loading shorter with less powder is to reduce sound while suppressed.

That statement doesn't really make sense. The decibel level of the 'pop' is due to the pressure behind the bullet. You can achieve a given pressure by shortening the OAL or adding more powder. Once you reach a specified chamber pressure (using EITHER method) the report you hear will be the same.


A good reason not to work with short OALs on the 147gr is that the inside of the 9x19 case has a taper that starts not too far down from the mouth. 115gr and 124gr bullets easily miss it, but the 147gr is a modern invention, one which the case designers never envisioned. You'll want to use the depth gauge on your calipers to make sure your bullet stays out of that zone, or the seating operation will bulge the center of the case outward.

Lots of stuff to think about!

PS. If you want the VV loading guide, then simply get your own Right Here.

 

[crimsoncomet]

That statement doesn't really make sense. The decibel level of the 'pop' is due to the pressure behind the bullet. You can achieve a given pressure by shortening the OAL or adding more powder. Once you reach a specified chamber pressure (using EITHER method) the report you hear will be the same.

Good point! THanks for all your advice. I will keep it in mind!

Let us know how it goes for you.

Will do! THanks!

OAL is up to you but don't try my N310 load above with a shorter OAL (or with a true FMJ like MG bullets). The load is "soft" but quite high pressure, as it is.

Thanks for the advice!

I appreciate everyones help. It has been great. I ran into a neck tension problem tonight while seating bullets to 1.120". Once I get that worked out, I will give it another try. Seems like my original OAL is GTG.

 

[Jim Watson]

I bet if I shorten the oal of my rounds up, I can using less powder due to pressure increase.

Yes, but in a less predictable or controllable way than just by increasing the load or changing powders. A friend kaBoomed a pistol with that logic. He figured that since he was at maximum on the load he shouldn't add powder but it was somehow ok to seat the bullet deeper. Fortunately the blown casehead did not hurt him or damage the gun much.