Loading the little 38 S&W cartridge - not 38 Spl

[Bullseye]

Today I put a bid on a model 925 H&R short barreled break top revolver. It's like new, appears unfired and has a plastic bakelite or tenite grip on it.
I once owned a model 999 sportsman and liked it but I am not fond of 22LR. This seemed to be a good substitute for my collection lacking this style handgun.

When I saw this revolver, I was thinking 38 spl. :banghead:
I sort of regretted bidding but at that price for a minty revolver like that I should still be OK.
Oh well, I put an absentee bid down of 275.00 for it.
I just may win it but now I wonder what components I will need to handload. There won't be a huge demand for the revolver I suppose and I might just get the thing, maybe even cheaper?

So I have read that 38 special brass is too narrow. Even if I wanted to trim them down to size.
The bullets are larger in diameter for the 38 S&W. Not by much, but I will want to have some ammo for this whether I shoot it or not.
If I do win and shoot this, I will want to reload some standard cartridge loads in 38 S&W.
Will this be a big deal? I would go ahead and buy some ammo, just to get the brass I guess. I'll need a set of dies since my 38 spl / .357 dies wont make a 38 S&W.
What say ye? Thank you!

 

[Curator]

Sigsmoker:

I have one just like yours. I also have a MkIV Webley and a S&W "pre-victory" model in .38 S&W. You are correct in that the .38 S&W cartridge is shorter and larger in diameter than the .38 Special cartridge. Nominal bullet diameter should be .361-362. Starline sells .38 S&W brass. Lee sells the dies. I "bump .359 bullets up to .362 in my bullet sizer and shoot them with small charges of Unique or Bullseye at about 650-750 fps with good accuracy.

Factory .38 S&W ammo is out there if you want to look. It is usually 148 grain lead round nose that shoots 650 fps in most revolvers. Nothing to write home about but is usually reasonably accurate.

With a good bullet, the .38 S&W is a reasonable Home defense cartridge and served at least two generations of law enforcement officers all around out country before plastic semi-autos became the arm of choice.

 

[FROGO207]

I have a H&R American revolver that shoots that ammo. There is a frequent limited run of ammo in that caliber from PPU, Remington, and Magtech. Magtech seems to be the most available and you can get new brass when they make a run of it. Ammoseek has a listing for it and there is a fair amount of loaded ammo available. I use Magtech brass Trail Boss and 145 grain LRN .362 diameter bullets from an old Ideal mold and RCBS dies. I worked up a load using the Trail Boss instructions from their site. I had some old Ideal and B&M manuals that listed Unique loads and will find them if you want.
ETA I forgot about Starline brass.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The MBC makes a bullet for the 38 S&W and Midway USA has Lee dies and Starline brass in 100 count available. I use W231 in the 38 S&W but Red Dot, Unique and a few others with also produce good ammo.

http://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=132&category=5
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/735915/starline-reloading-brass-38-s-and-w (on sale)
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/209266/lee-carbide-3-die-set-38-s-and-w

I load a 170gr and a 200gr bullet for shooting in a WWII Enfield No.2 which is fun to shoot, especially with the 38/200 ammo.

 

[Bullseye]

ArchAngel Thanks for the investigation! Kind of you to do so!

OK fellers .... I don't have it yet LOL
But I am getting excited about winning it maybe tomorrow.

Since I posted, I got busy looking around and I found starline brass and a set of dies too. Glad for the info on the MBC sized bullets. I am not worried on figuring out how to load for it now. Peece-0-kake
I hope my bid was in line but THATS ANOTHER THREAD.
We shall see. Thanks again. A bit relieved.
Something the wife can shoot with ease from what I reading.

 

[Salmoneye]

Only .38 S&W I have currently is an Albion Motors Enfield from 1943...

I use .358" cast 158gr truncated cone bullets...Red Dot is my go-to powder...I load using .357/.38 dies...I do use .38 S&W cases...

The thing I have found over the years is that you need to slug the barrel on a .38 S&W, and then see what the throats will allow to pass without swaging...There were so many manufacturers and decades of use, that I have seen groove diameters from .355" to .361"...In fact, one old manual I have calls for bullets from .354"-.360" (1967, Lyman #44, page 121)...

.359" needs help getting through the throats on my gun, so there is no point going larger than .358"...

The last two factory rounds I dissected, both had a dead soft skirted bullet at .359"...The skirts bump up to fill larger grooves if need be...These were 90's vintage Remington and Winchester rounds...

Here's an old thread that follows along with what I have seen...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?160476-Survey-Slugging-of-38-S-amp-W-Bores

Nice little gun, BTW...

 

[Walkalong]

It's a fun little gun and caliber.

 

[WestKentucky]

I have had a couple 38sw guns. I currently have a really nice example of a s&w 3rd model safety hammerless, factory reblued in the 60s, and very nice since then. I haven't shot it yet but I have all of the components lined up in the garage. I just don't have a cylinder stop to put in the gun to make it functionally safe. My American Double Action I had a few years ago was a fair shooter. I cleaned it up internally and got it running, then somebody traded me out of it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Good luck on getting the win. It's a little funny looking but I like it. I would not mind owning one at all. Revolvers ain't what the used to be, think The Chiappa Rhino...

 

[Walkalong]

I hadn't bought a gun in over two years until about a month ago. Yep, a .38-200 (.38 S&W)

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Nice gun AC...

 

[Bullseye]

Well, that auction is over by now for sure. I left 9 conservative bids on an absentee sheet yesterday. Mostly lever guns.
I don't think I won anything or I would probably have gotten a call to come fetch and pay up. I also had 12 lots consigned there myself.
I hope that's a good sign that I didn't win anything.
The weather was gloomy, a good day to be in a fire hall auction, so I hope my stuff got good money too.

I did learn about the 38 S&W though, and the more I learned from you guys and the other stuff I read the more I liked it.
It's nothing to sneeze at. Kinda wish I would have won but either way I am OK. Next time a nice piece comes up in 38 S&W, I'll know a bit more about it.
If I get a call to pick anything up besides a check, I'll let ya know, otherwise, this topic is turned over to the handloaders of this cartridge in this topic thread.
Thanks again!

LATE EDIT 10/12 : I DID NOT win the 38 S&W H&R, nor did I win any of the 10 lots I bid on. Wish I would have, but I was tighter than the skin on a hot dog with my bids I guess.

 

[Bullseye]

Correction - I got a check in the mail from my sales, cleared 24 bucks over my expectations, and was notified that I won 1 revolver lot #391
Auction Description:
S&W model 13-2 .357 mag with 4 inch ribbed barrel. Cased trigger and hammer, pinned and recessed.
Complete with box papers and tool ( possibly unfired ) Collector Quality Condition.

I am happy about this.
View attachment 224098

 

[Walkalong]

Very nice.