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Local hunting accident. This needs to be shared

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by R.W.Dale, Nov 29, 2012.

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  1. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Go back and reread my posts. NOBODY'S saying the lack.of orange in any way excuses the shooters gross lack of judgment here.

    But if that orange might have given the wearer a better chance of surviving this encounter it absolutely is his sole blame for not having used it. Just like if someone doesn't wear a seatbelt and is injured in an an accident. So freaking what if its not their fault?! That's minuscule consolation when they're the one who have to deal with the injuries or being dead.




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  2. Mike J

    Mike J Member

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    Wearing orange while deer hunting is state law here in Georgia. If I go into the woods for any reason during deer season I still wear it. Even if I'm just getting firewood or whatever. I do not shoot at what I can not see but I think it unwise to underestimate the capacity of my fellow man for stupidity. This thread makes me think about many years ago. My hunting partner was in a tree stand near the property line when bullets started coming through the tree he was in. He exited the stand & looked up to see a turkey fly past. Yes there are idiots that will shoot at a flying bird with a deer rifle. God only knows where those rounds ended up at.

    That said from what I read in a recent E mail from the DNR here I believe the majority of hunting accidents in Georgia are the result of tree stand accidents although I am sure there are still some firearm related ones.
     
  3. Old Shooter

    Old Shooter Member

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    Shouldn't need to wear blaze orange when walking on gods greeen earth at any time.

    If you are hunting or intend to shoot at something wiggling the bushes around, it is YOUR responsiblity to know what you are shooting at....period.

    This is the shooters fault, not the hikers.
     
  4. 788Ham

    788Ham Member

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    In the state of Colorado, one must wear a hunter daylight orange vest or jacket, and includes a hat or cap, total must be 500 sq. inches during hunting seasons. This includes guides or other non-hunters in hunting group. Without it and caught, one will be ticketed! One would have to be pretty ignorant to go out into the woods during hunting season without this display of color, IMHO !

    There have been a few instances of folks being shot at while wearing these colors, still doesn't take away the responsibility of knowing what you're shooting at either, if you're not sure, you'd best not pull that trigger!

    Previous responder mentioned one shouldn't need to wear blaze orange when out walking God's green earth, but if during hunting season, your roll of the dice pal !
     
  5. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Member

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    Wait... Seriously? You really are going to maintain that not wearing Blaze Orange is only marginally less reckless than firing a high power rifle at random noises?

    Seriously?

    The problem isn't not wearing Blaze Orange. The problem is that over reliance on the presence of Blaze Orange has led to stupider hunters that use it as an identification crutch and shoot at anything non-dayglo.

    The mentality in the hunting community that allows for these types of events needs to be purged with an iron fist. Every deer we take, Buck or Doe, we glass it long enough to judge it's approximate age, it's body size and if applicable it's rack. Not only B&C score, but characteristics. Deer need to be properly judged before the shot to protect and improve the herd. Blaze Orange is a pathetic stand-in that is completely unnecessary to the competent hunter. There's no way in hell to drop the hammer on a hiker when you should know it's a 5 1/2 to 6 1/2 doe between 165 to 185 and she has a snubbed tail. It's just not possible. To many people are willing to take the fleeting shot on a poorly identified, or even mostly unseen deer. It's not just dangerous, it's bad hunting. Those people are sad excuses for hunters, and most of them need to have their tickets pulled. The fewer idiots you have in the woods, the better the hunting and the better the herd.

    And for Gods sake people, stop shooting the yearling and two and a half bucks.
     
  6. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Yes I am. Stupidity and arrogance are not very far removed from one another.

    One person is a danger to everything in the woods. The other is freely offering themselves up to these folks.

    It ain't rocket science folks. Orange just like seatbelts and airbags aren't there to guard against the safe responsible hunters/drivers. They're there as safeguards against all the folks who aren't and that YOU WILL NEVER EVER NOT IN A BILLION YEARS have control over.

    And to argue that orange is part of the problem. That's just derp derp talk. When the possible outcome is people getting shot and killed you absolutely dumb it down to the lowest common denominator.





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  7. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    I also hate to do this but I think I need to single out the Texans here.

    Your hunting on controlled access private land is almost completely unlike hunting heavily forrested public land. You guys are closer to European hunting than the rest of the country.

    Orange is absolutely a necessary safety measure. I don't know how many times in the national forest I've picked out that tiny block of orange showing through the trees that tells you not to shoot in that direction. I don't care how good you think you are at "glassing" you'd never see if it was camo.

    Without orange you guys are mistaking being oblivious to the other hunters around for awareness and you Texans are relying on that fence instead of orange to serve the same end.




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  8. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Member

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    According to the latest report I saw, the victim was 140 some yards away from the shooters residence. Not really that close. Newest press release I saw now claims the victim was on a trail on private property(as opposed to the first release I read where they claimed it was a public hiking trail) and the investigation is now centered on what the victim was doing there, as the local Police Chief says the shooter and the victim had a "relationship"? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    While I admit blaze orange could have saved the victim, the claim that he was as much as fault as the shooter is non-sense. One does not shoot at a sounds. One does not shoot without identifying their target and what is beyond it. The very basics of gun safety. The victim was not wearing a brown suit with a white patch on the rump and antlers. He was wearing blue jeans and a camo coat. In Wisconsin, one is required to wear blaze orange when hunting any game during a gun deer season.......except for waterfowlers. Yesterday I saw three goose hunters walking the trail that surrounds the lake by my house. They were in full camouflage. At the same time I knew the neighbor was out in the next woodlot hunting deer with a muzzle-loader. I could see his blaze orange in his blind. The thought of this thread went thru my mind as I watched the goose hunters make their way to their truck. I doubt if they thought they were in any danger, altho the scenarios between them and the accident in Arkansas were quite similar. I certainly didn't consider them stupid as they were doing what was required to goose hunt and were completely legal. Again.....there is no excuse for shooting a gun at something you have not identified as a target. Period.
     
  9. heeler

    heeler Member

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    I have to hand it to you Dale...You are consistent in your views.
     
  10. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    Look its not about as you put it "making excuses for the shooter" its about keeping the person who may get shot ALIVE with no extra holes at the end of the day. I may take a more dim view of humanity than you do but its my firm belief that stupid people will always be doing stupid things and you will NEVER change that. But what you can change is what those stupid people see when looking your way.

    I've gone so far as to put my orange hat atop my deer blind. Its not like deer pay attention to colors anyways.

    Sometimes its more of a "hey I'm here don't shoot this direction" thing than it is "not a deer"




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  11. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    Simple rule: Don't shoot at anything that's not been identified as a proper target. You get right down to the nitty-gritty, orange is irrelevant to responsible behavior. (Not knocking orange; it's obviously been contributory to greater safety.)

    Yeah, there are some idiots who will take "sound" shots at a noise, "Just wanted to see what ran out..." People who do that would have to double up on smarts just to reach "stupid". If they screw up, whatever maximum punishment is available should be administered, IMO.
     
  12. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Interesting and naive argument. You don't go around wearing a ballistic vest everyday because you know there are negligent idiots and criminals out there with guns, do you? The idiots and criminals are out there. This is a given and a known. We read about them every day.

    FYI, it is varmit or pest season 24/7 in parts of the country such as Arkansas. It is poaching season 24/7 everywhere in the world. Do YOU wear orage every day of your life you go outside? You know there are people like that out there who will shoot at movement and who can't be trusted to properly identify targets.
     
  13. R.W.Dale

    R.W.Dale Member

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    You want to discuss niave. I take it you live in the suburbs.

    Are you actually suggesting that you're no more likely to be shot in the off season with nobody in the woods than you are during modern gun deer season where the forests flood with folks who may be out there the only that one season for the entire year?

    And yes I do usually wear an orange hat and avoid certain colors.

    So to grace the asinine contention that orange = a vest. Yes I go out in public with a gun as insurance and if I were going out in public and expected shooting I would absolutely wear armor ... if I couldn't avoid going


    Again you Texans do not understand the fundamental differences. Try to image your hunting spot, no fences, where everyone is free to come n go as they please at any time of the day.



    Its quite revealing that ALL the anti orange comments are from Texas. It starkly shows how different the hunting culture there differs from the rest of the country.



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    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  14. heeler

    heeler Member

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    I am not anti orange.
    I just dont feel the need to wear it.
    None at all.
    And I have been hunting since I was seven and will be 60 this month.
     
  15. 627PCFan

    627PCFan Member

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    You havent hunted public land on the east coast.
     
  16. heeler

    heeler Member

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    And I would probaly not hunt on public land in the east coast.
    This is why I appreciate private land hunting so much.
    You have control of the situation.
     
  17. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    You mean the greater Forestburg metropolitan area? We don't even have a stop light! 220 people are listed on the census, but less than 100 in the actual town. Hell, the whole county only has about 25,000 people.

    Nope. I did not make any statements of likelihood. I stated directly that the danger exists all the times from idiots about which you are so concerned. I thought that was fairly clear.

    Hmm, I don't think you understand geography.

    This whole "should've been wearing orange" business reminds me of the Karen Wood incident.
    http://www.yankeemagazine.com/issues/2010-01/interact/10things/down-east-stories/karenwood/all

    She, too, was killed by a local idiot.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  18. Wes B

    Wes B Member

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    I think Jeff Cooper covered this in the RULES:

    RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

    RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

    RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

    RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
     
  19. DAP90

    DAP90 Member

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    You realize of course that most people don’t have the faintest idea when deer season is and don’t give it the least bit of consideration. They certainly don’t own blaze orange or think that they need to wear it while on a nature walk with their family. It’s hard to be proactive against threats that you don’t even realize exist. That’s not their fault really; it’s just not a big part of our culture anymore.
     
  20. LJH

    LJH Member

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    This is a tragic story.

    But as a Texan I wanted to comment on a few things. I own a little ranch and I always were orange when out on the ranch, hunting or not. In 10 years I have never crossed paths with anyone on my place, but my chances of being mistaken for wildlife go way down if I am in blaze orange. But more importantly (to me) my chances of being spotted go way up if I am hurt and unable to make it back to the road.
     
  21. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    And when hunting was, blaze orange certainly was not part of it.
     
  22. wgp

    wgp Member

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    Orange is the law in Kansas for big game, but not for upland bird hunting. But I always wear it (except for doves) and learned a valuable lesson about wearing it once when hunting private land, as the only person with permission to be there, and lo and behold here came a trespassing hunter out of the cover, all camo and basically invisible. He wondered why I was so unhappy since as he said, he could see me.

    Not the only time I've come on trespassers hunting on private land, including my own farm. Do as you think best, but being on private land is no assurance you are alone.
     
  23. Alaska444

    Alaska444 member

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    Sounds very suspicious at the very least and definitely negligent homicide as a beginning. I would hope charges will come forth. Perhaps they will wait to see what kind of relationship these men already had and if there were any verbal type of threats mentioned at some point.
     
  24. jbkebert

    jbkebert Member

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    It's a horrible thing no matter who is more at fault. Shooting at a sound is just plain dumbassity.

    I went out and cut a couple loads of firewood over the weekend. It is currently the Kansas rifle season and your damn skippy I was wearing a orange vest and hat. Moving through the brush wearing brown Carharts isn't the smartest thing and the chainsaw isn't running all the time. No it should not be needed but it sure doesn't hurt either.
     
  25. skiking

    skiking Member

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    Stories like these make me angry. The guy should spend a long time in prison. I am against any law requiring non hunter to wear blaze orange, we shouldn't impose restrictions on other people because some hunters are complete idiots. We should be pushing for people who kill people in this senseless manner to spend the rest of their lives in prison. It seems like every year somebody "accidentally" shoots a hiker and I have to call BS.
     
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