local officer shot during training!

[eng23ine]

Taken from the Shelby Star
http://www.shelbystar.com/news/polkville_30502___article.html/house_scene.html

Officer shot during training session
Friday, Apr 18 2008, 6:00 pm
Graham Cawthon

POLKVILLE - Some mistook the chaos as just part of an exercise.

Officers from several departments were in their second day of training on Polkville Road, using an abandoned building to go through hostage situation exercises.

But yellow tape around the building Friday afternoon - while officers declined to comment - gave the indication that whatever had happened was far more real than some believed.

"They said they had an accident," said a man at the scene who identified himself as the property owner. "They said they were taking care of it."

The silence from officials was eventually broken with the announcement that, in the midst of the exercise coordinated by Cleveland Community College's Basic Law Enforcement Training program, an officer had been shot.

"We had one of our officers accidentally shoot another one of our officers," said Interim Shelby Police Chief Jeff Ledford.

A 13-year veteran of the Shelby Police Department, Detective Todd Vickery, was struck in the thigh after Officer Randy Conner pulled the trigger of what he thought was an "air soft" training gun.

"And it turned out to be the real thing," Ledford said.

A colored tip distinguished the training weapons from the real ones, according to police.

Emergency personnel responded to the building at 3916 Polkville Road at 3:29 p.m. Vickery was taken to Cleveland Regional Medical Center but was said to be OK at 5:15 p.m., Ledford said.

When contacted by phone Friday afternoon, Polkville Mayor Jack Shytle said he wasn't sure what had happened but said he was concerned when he saw paramedics returning to their station at Polkville Town Hall.

The sheriff's office is investigating the shooting since it happened within their jurisdiction. Attempts to contact the sheriff's office for comment Friday evening were unsuccessful.

Ledford said Conner was on administrative leave pending a Shelby Police internal investigation, which is standard procedure. He said Chaplain Glenn Davenport had already met with officers regarding the incident.

"Every resource that they need, we'll make sure they get it," Ledford said of Vickery, Conner and other officers close to the situation.

Off-duty officers were called Friday afternoon to let them know about the incident. No timetable has been set for Vickery's return, Ledford said.

"We're just thankful that the officer is OK," Ledford said.

 

[El Tejon]

Horrible.

What's the proper methodology to prevent this? All orange training gun? Plenty of breaks to cool the brain? What?

 

[jnyork]

How is this possible? Does an airsoft gun that closely resemble a real gun in weight and operation that it cannot be readily distinguished from the real thing without a red barrel tip or something?

 

[El Tejon]

The officer is hot (is his gear), tired (training all day), sweating and possibly out of breath. Add confusion from different bodies moving here and there=ND prone.

 

[Sato Ord]

My first thought was, "WHAT?!"

Then I got to thinking about it. My Airsoft is clear plastic with some orange, hard to mistake it for the real deal at a glance. I bought it rather than a co2 powered airsoft even though I would like to have the auto firing mode of the co2 model because I couldn't get the higher quality model that didn't look real. My friends and I use these to run drills in places like public parks, we don't want to get shot by law enforcement mistaking our toys for the real thing. Might be especially embarrassing since some of my buddies who might be participating are cops.

The next thing I wondered about was why the officer didn't notice the weight difference. However, a quick experiment, taking the mag out of my S&W Sigma (Poly frame) determined that a light weight pistol might just not weight enough more to be noticeable, especially if a lot is going on in a hurry. Although, once you put a loaded mag in the weight difference is significant.

Now, the question is, did this guy's weapon have a mag safety, (I know mine doesn't). If it didn't then he could have had one in the chamber and not had the extra weight of 14 or more rounds in the grip.

This brings up the question of why was a live weapon on that range at that time? If it was supposed to be unloaded, why hadn't it been completely cleared?

Any way you slice it, "They got some splainin' to dooooo!"

So much for the myth that the police have superior training than do most firearms owners.

 

[bogie]

Darn good thing that the ossifer who yanked on that trigger was a crappy shot...

 

[Geno]

I am the only person in this room who is qualified to...

Poooooooom!

Feces! :banghead:

 

[shadowalker]

It isn't surprising a mistake like this could happen, it is very easy to tell the difference between a normal handgun and a cheap plastic air soft BUT there are plenty of air soft guns that are replicas of service weapons.

These air soft guns are made of metal and weigh / look nearly identical, they can be used in the same holster, and many of them are gas operated so they even have blow back and simulated recoil. They are intended for realistic training scenarios.

Airsoft guns can be very realistic looking which is what led to the orange tip, so the victims and others would know it was an airsoft gun; it can be very hard for the operator to see the tip.

Seems like safety rules were either not laid out or not followed and someone made an unfortunate and preventable mistake.

 

[XavierBreath]

I don't know much, but it would seem that the first activity of any force on force training would be securing any live ammunition.

Whether using laser tag, airsoft, or Simunition, the first activity should be the inspection of all weapons by the personel in charge, and the removal of live ammunition. If Simunition is not going to be used, then the "real" weapons should be secured as well.

This seems to me to be a failure of the instructors as much as the man who pulled the trigger. But then, I don't know much...........

 

[never_retreat]

If they were using airsoft than there should not have been any real guns of ammo on the property.

 

[W.E.G.]

Glad the injured officer will be "OK."

Would be very interested to know how a live weapon got mixed into the sims gear.

 

[scrat]

Confiscation of all real firearms prior to using fake or practice guns. prior to surrenduring firearms they are properly unloaded. Should be a standard you think. I blame the guy in charge of the training scenario

 

[TAB]

Don't air soft guns have to have a orange muzzle on them?

 

[p2000sk]

Something about cars and mispelled words.
I'll bet it hurt.

 

[Tommygunn]

I have an Airsoft M1A1 Thompson that's an AEG (Airsoft Electric Gun) that is amazingly similar to the real thing except for some minor details that most people would hardly notice. It came with an orange plastic cap over the muzzle which is basically 2 plastic halves that can be easily pried apart, leaving the muzzle precisely identical to a real one.
Even the "wood" is quite realistic except it's plastic. It could easily be mistaken for a real gun by someone who only saw it from a distance, and there are other high-end airsofts equally realistic in modern AR and AK "assault rifle" designs as well as handguns.
These all have orange plastic muzzles. Not all are as removeable as mine is. Not to say they couldn't be painted to match the gun. I would not recommend that, but the point is it could be done, and it is up to the end user to decide how wise it would be (it might be illegal in some jurisdictions, so I would absolutly NOT recommend altering the colored tips!).
I would hope police training with these or "simunition" guns would keep the orange muzzles as is -- in fact, I wonder why they would even need to have real firearms in a training facility at all.

 

[jcwit]

Two letters (IQ)?

 

[PercyShelley]

I don't know much, but it would seem that the first activity of any force on force training would be securing any live ammunition.

Whether using laser tag, airsoft, or Simunition, the first activity should be the inspection of all weapons by the personel in charge, and the removal of live ammunition. If Simunition is not going to be used, then the "real" weapons should be secured as well.

Indeed! A "sterile" training environment should be a priority!

Glad this guy will be OK, let's be careful out there!

 

[BlackBearME]

Hrmmm.

It says Officers, not recruits or trainees. This indicates that they are all actively serving officers and have gone through Basic LE training. Even if not and they're recruits going through basic training, you would think that someone at some point would have mentioned something about not pointing the gun at anything you don't intend to shoot.

Maybe we need a Rule .5 - Treat every gun as though it were a real gun. Ugh.

 

[paramedic70002]

See what happens when you mix colleges and guns...

Sorry couldn't resist

 

[Aguila Blanca]

How is this possible? Does an airsoft gun that closely resemble a real gun in weight and operation that it cannot be readily distinguished from the real thing without a red barrel tip or something?

You betcha.

I have an airsoft Para P14 that's indistinguishable from the real thing, and I also have a Wilson Compat airsoft that's indistiguishable from a genuine 1911 Combat Commander. And I'm not talking about from the other side of the room. If I laid the Wilson airsoft on a table in front of you so you couldn't look down the muzzle and see no rifling -- there is NO way you would think it was anything other than a real 1911.

The following are ALL airsoft pistols:

 

[jnyork]

Wow!! Shows you what I know of such things.!!

 

[LawofThirds]

Hmmm, looks like a pair of Western Arms a Tanaka and a KSC to me. I've got a Tanaka that's an identical copy of a 4" 629 that you can't tell from the real thing unless you pick it up. And many of the 1911 or glock replicas are nearly identical in weight/feel to the real thing. The only good thing about this is that he didn't accidentally shoot his buddy with a M4 by accident, most airsoft M4's feel identical in the hand to a real one.

Honestly, most of the serious airsofters in my area have long ago removed the orange tip from their weapons, myself included. We play organized skirmishes on private property away from prying eyes. And an orange tip is only required by federal law for the transport and sales of said airsoft gun, much like those ominous stickers on your pillows and mattress. As a community, airsofters who participate in organised matches and reinactments are quite disgusted with the fools who shoot at each other and non-participants with the cheap guns (*cough* much like the shooting community doesn't condone a fire fight with lorcins in the street) in public areas. And don't forget, a crime committed with an airsoft weapon is still a gun crime in the eyes of the law.