long deer shot

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And the problem is that the deceleration rate is not linear. Depending on the weight, length and shape of the bullet (Also known as Ballistic Coefcient BC) will give us an idea of the rapidity of the deceleration which becomes far more pronounced at the final stages of long range flight.

Which is why you can misjudge their distance by 50 yards at 300 yards and still make a hit while at 700 a misjudgment of 20 yards will be a complete miss.

The bullet has gone from a rather flat trajectory to a rainbow arc at that range as the effects of air friction (drag) and gravity are starting to win the battle.

Here are some fun gravity facts:)

The moment a bullet leaves the muzzle it begins to drop. Bullets do not magically "rise" as they leave the muzzel as so many hunters have been taught. Rather the rise is incurred when we sight our rifle to start off with a minuet bit of elevation causing a short ballistic arc and giving the appearance of a rising bullet.

If you were to drop a bullet from your hand at 4 feet above the earths surface and fire one from the muzzle of a rifle at exactly 4 feet above the earths surface. Both will strike the earths surface at exactly the same moment.

The one you dropped will hit the earth at your feet the one fired from the rifle will hit the earth however many feet down range in the time it was able to propel forward depending on it's initial velocity.

Say for
explanations sake that it takes the bullet 1/2 second to fall 4 feet from your hand that same bullet if fired at 3000 FPS would also hit the ground in 1/2 second only it would be 1500 feet down range.

BC will make a difference as to how far the bullet will fly because it has an effect on the deceleration rate but that bullet is gonna hit the ground in the fictional 1/2 second no matter what.

Gravity has a nominal downward force of 9.8 meters per second squared.

There is no escape..:D While on this planet anyway.

We can cheat a bit by playing with the trajectory IE elevating the muzzle to "loft" the bullet but in the end Gravity is gonna win.
 
It doesn't need to be linear. As long as an equation can be made to fit represent it accurately, all you need to do is to find the integral of that equation and solve for the area under the curve. It can be logistic, hyperbolic, exponential, whatever.
 
Okay,...the trail has been explained,....I can buy that.

But regardless of the math method used, the point remains that even a 2700 fps bullet could retain all of it's speed over 890 yds., it still would take a "one thousand one" count for that bullet to arrive following the crack of the report. Even a nice, speed/energy retaining 225 gr sp loses over 25% of it's speed in the first 500 yds (1500 ft.). Add 400 more yds to that at an even greater speed loss per ft., it's gotta take that bullet a bit more than a second to get there.

Assuming a lighter bullet traveling 3300 to 3700 fps it would still take at least a second to get there,..never mind that lighter, faster bullet loses speed at a faster rate.

I'm not trying to disprove the video, I'm trying to understand what I see and hear in context with the video.
 
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razorburn,

I do not have the data to provide for an equation. However most bullet companies provide ballistics programs for their products.

This information is quite readily available for a given bullet and a given load most of these products include density altitude (pressure altitude corrected for temperature and humidity) data as well.

I'm sure someone on this sight has a ballistics program.


The equation is exponential I believe.
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pickenlittle

I am not trying to prove or disprove anything on the video either. I learned a long time ago that whatever is seen and or claimed on the net should be taken with a grain of salt.

I am just throwing some numbers out there for fun.

If you watch some of these hunting shows on OLN or some such you'll see what I'm talking about with the shockwave disruption and vapor trails.

After watching that again the only shot that the guys claim a distance on is the first one. They don't claim distance on the second or third shot.
 
Here's what I got from Ammoguide.com, assumming a 3000 fps 180 gr 30 cal spbt round.

Trajectory (Basic) Output
Input Data
Manufacturer: Nosler Description: .308 dia. 180gr. Accubond™
Muzzle Velocity: 3000.0 ft/s
Sight Height: 1.50 in LOS Angle: 0.0 deg
Cant Angle: 0.0 deg
Wind Speed: 0.0 mph Target Speed: 0.0 mph
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Relative Humidity: 0.0 % Altitude: 0 ft
Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Corrected Pressure: Yes
Target Relative Drops: Yes Zero at Max. Point Blank Range: No
Calculated Parameters
Elevation: 4.75 MOA Azimuth: 0.00 MOA
Atmospheric Density: 0.07647 lbs/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1116.5 ft/s
Maximum PBR: 364 yds Maximum PBR Zero: 309 yds
Range at Max Height: 170 yds Energy at PBR: 2191.9 ft•lbs
Sectional Density: 0.271 lbs/in²
Calculated Table
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yds) (in) (moa) (in) (moa) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (moa)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 3000.0 2.687 3596.5 0.000 0.0 ***
100 1.5 1.4 0.0 0.0 2809.1 2.516 3153.4 0.103 0.0 0.0
200 -0.0 -0.0 0.0 0.0 2626.3 2.352 2756.4 0.214 0.0 0.0
300 -6.5 -2.1 0.0 0.0 2450.8 2.195 2400.2 0.332 0.0 0.0
400 -18.8 -4.5 0.0 0.0 2282.0 2.044 2081.0 0.459 0.0 0.0
500 -37.8 -7.2 0.0 0.0 2119.9 1.899 1795.8 0.595 0.0 0.0
600 -64.5 -10.3 0.0 0.0 1964.5 1.760 1542.1 0.742 0.0 0.0
700 -100.3 -13.7 0.0 0.0 1816.3 1.627 1318.3 0.901 0.0 0.0
800 -146.6 -17.5 0.0 0.0 1676.1 1.501 1122.7 1.073 0.0 0.0
900 -205.3 - 21.8 0.0 0.0 1545.0 1.384 953.9 1.260 0.0 0.0
1000 -278.7 -26.6 0.0 0.0 1424.2 1.276 810.6 1.462 0.0 -0.0
Click to expand...

At 900 yds 1.26 sec flight.
 
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Yes, that's a vapor trail from the bullet.

300 to 400 yards is the longest I'd try under most hunting conditions.

As far as the deer that ran went, I hope they had a tracking dog.

Buddy of mine shot a ten point right before dusk with a 12 gauge slug. Blood trail petered out on us and given the details of the area, I didn't think he was looking in the right area. Only problem was no sign could be found down the old logging road that I thought the buck would have taken. We looked until well after full dark and I was ready to give it up. John wasn't about to give up on the largest buck he'd ever shot, though. I remembered a hunting club a few miles away that had a tracking dog they'd offered if I ever needed it so we packed up and asked for help. Those boys had two questions:"Big buck?" Yep. "Got a blood trail?" Yep. "let's go!" The old dog had died but they had a young beagle. The beagle ran up to the blood, sniffed it, and tore off down the logging road I'd been looking at. Never put his nose to the ground again. The buck leaped from behind a stand of dog fennels about a quarter of a mile from where he'd been shot and ran another quarter of a mile before it collapsed. Tough buck. The slug entered its right side just behind the short ribs, went through the diaphragm, the left lung, and exited throught the short ribs on the left side. Still took three shots with a 10mm through the neck to put him down at the end of the chase.
 
I do a lot of long-range shooting, although the longest shot I've taken on deer is under 100 yards because of the terrain and growth on my family's land.

Just a few points:

* Most modern ballistic calculators will be accurate within a click, provided you give them correct inputs: sight over bore distance, bullet BC(s), muzzle velocity, zero distance, and environmental conditions. I have, and have seen others, take new guns with a known load (BC, MV) and a solid 100-yard zero and make first-round hits out to 700-1000 yards.

* The only way to get the skill and experienced required to make first-round long-range hits (say 500-1000 yards) is by doing it. A lot. In varied locations and conditions. For example, in most conditions, I can make a first-round hit on a 15" target at 1000 yards with a 338 Lapua. With my 308, I'd move that up to 600-700 yards.

* The only way to get an accurate time of flight is to use one of those ballistic calculators. It is the result of iterating a set of differential equations every 1 - 20 ms during flight.
 
Since I don't know what the shooter was using, I just went to ammoguide.com, using their ballistic calulator I plugged in some basic info for a 3000 fps, 180 gr, .308 cal. spbt bullet just to have some general sense of what's going on.

That's where that scrambled table came from. Sorry I couldn't find a way to make it stay in columns.
 
I think the first shot appears to be a dog. I have never seen a deer with a tail like that. I would also like to know what gun he was using
 
Long range hunting

I see nothing wrong with it if you have been shooting the gun you are using and know exactly what you and it can do. I shot a coues deer buck once at 625 yards. I did it with a Savage 99A cal 308, a K3 Weaver 4 plex scope, and my handload. It was the only rifle I owned at the time and I use to shoot hunter silioutte with it. The deer looked like the 500 meter rams so I used the same hold over as on them. The rifle was zero at 200 yards and I would hold at the top of the curl of the ram and they would fall if I press the trigger at the right tme. I had a log to rest on and took my time. I respect what a 30 cal 150gr Hornaday Spire point can do, entered middle of R/S, came out the breast and took off the L/F leg. I carried him out and processed the deer that day.
I went back a year later with a borrowed range finder and it was farther then I thought, but it was a down hill shot, and that affected the bullet drop less then a horizontal shot would have. This was before laser range finders. I prefer to hunt now with iron sights and ranges below 200 yards and usually less then 50 yards. As long as my eyes hold out and they are changing fast since I'm over 50 now. I've alway been fascinated with long range shooting and accuracy, with a rifle or handgun. But there's nothing like stalking in your socks, playing the wind, and being able to get up close either.
 
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Couple years ago my handgun shooting buddy and i went to the International Tactical Rifleman's Championship out of Gillette, WY in '04. We competed against some of the military and police sniper units on a couple roving silhouette courses where tgts. are engaged at unknown distance out to about 700 yds. or so. If u've never been to one of these comps. before u owe it to yourself to go sometime. No better way in the world to prepare for hunting.

At 1 of the stations i watched in awe as my partner nailed 10 in a row on 8" circular steel silhouettes between 585 and 685 yds. with a custom XP-100 6.5-284 and 140 gr. A-Max.

This elk season he made a 1 shot kill on a cow elk at 666 yds. with his custom XP 7mm Dakota/8.5-25X leup. Mk 4/200 gr. ULD Wildcat bullet (BC=.825). When he checked his rig after recalculating his zero for the conditions change in Pueblo, CO relative to Hutchinson, KS, i watched again in awe as his 1st shot on a steel silhouette @ 613 yds. was dead center--phenomenal.

Amazing what can be accomplished @ LR with a little investigation into the "system."
 
Picknlittle: I don't think the second and third shots were very far (although the trajectory of the second is downward)...the sound travels back at a constant speed and if I am hearing the thud of the hit like I think, they weren't very far. I couldn't hear the hit on the first shot. dvnv
 
dvnv - I was pretty much going by the context of the video and the apparent compression of the video image. Nothing scientific,....and not necessarily accurate <G>
 
Guys look squared away.

I shot nine deer this year, all with mil-surps and the issued sight sets under 150 yards. These guys have a completely different approach, but looks like they have the equipment and the expertise to use it. Seems like a long way though if you miss-hit an animal. Hard to tell what the actual range is. The video may be pulling back to a wide angle shot which makes it look farther than it really is. Certainly it's under 1000 I would think, but more than 500.

I'm happy anytime any citizen is shooting anything.
 
Great shot, sorry but judging by the video I am going to have to disagree with the range. it looks more like 400-500 yards to me, nonetheless it was a GREAT shot.

Before I get bitched at, let me explain why I said it. Below is a video of me shooting a prairie dog at 400 yards with my AR-15. When I pan back it looks like 1000 yards, in Truth it lasered at 398 yards.

http://www.ballisticbill.com/400_yard_shot_on_a_prairie_dog.htm
 
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