Long Distance Shooting Question

[Mark13]

I've never shot beyond 100 yds at the range, and I hear everyone talking about the precision needed to shoot at 1000 yds.

At what range does the skill of the shooter really come into play? I have little experience shooting, but I found it easy to keep my groups under 12" with an AK at 100 yards with the iron sights.

Would I find it just as easy to shoot a 12" group at 500 yards with a good 1 MOA scoped rifle?

 

[hillbilly]

In quick and dirty non-math guy terms, a MOA or minute of angle is equal to about a 1 inch circle at 100 yards, a 2 inch circle at 200 yards, 3 at 300, 4 at 400 etc. etc etc out to 10 inch circle at 1000 yards.

Your AK is shooting 12 MOA.

A 1 MOA rifle at 500 yards should keep all shots within a 5 inch circle at 500 yards.

Plenty of modern, bolt action, centerfire rifles are capable of keeping 1 MOA.

Many "out of the box" precision or sniper rifles have less than 1 MOA.

I've got a Rem 700 that's been accurized that can do about .25 MOA, if I do my part off a rest, or from prone supported.

And, shooter skill is the key component at any and all ranges.

In one American Rifleman magazine is a story of a 60 year old man who took an off-the-rack 1903 Springfield and hit 66 bullseyes in a row at 1000 yards in a long range shooting competition.

In the story, the man got the rifle literally off a rack of rifles at the competition and got a few sighters, and then proceeded to whack that bullseye 66 times.

Happened just after WWI sometime. I'll try to find the article.

But at all ranges, shooter skill is key. A skilled shooter with a mediocre rifle is better than a non-skilled shooter with a great rifle.

Get yourself a bolt action and start playing around at the range with it.

hillbilly

 

[Jim K]

I think the bullseye on the 1000 yard target was 3 or 4 feet, so that story is more possible than it seems.

Most shooting at 1000 yards and over is not done with conventional rifles. Those barrels are super heavy and the stocks look like railroad ties. Adjustment is by micrometer wheels and gears in the mount, like an artillery piece. Not your average deer rifle.

Jim

 

[Freedomv]

concerning 1000yd targets-NRA LR-
X-ring-----------10 inches
10 ring----------20 inches
9 ring------------30
8 ring---44------- The 8 ring is the aiming black
7 ring--60
6 ring 72X72 inches

Thats right out of the highpower rifle rule book
I have shot 1000 yds a few times at Perry and Oak ridge, Tenns. and at Raton NM and I must say its a different ball game. and each range shoots differantly.(sp)
Vern

 

[Nando Aqui]

For an interesting discussion of 1000-yd shooting, read this recent THR thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65644

Alex

 

[Tomac]

At 1,000yds you have variables come into play that have little/no effect at much shorter ranges: Wind speed/direction, mirage, ambient light level, bullet velocity (accuracy will degrade if the bullet goes subsonic), etc. A shooter's skill at accounting for these variables will play a big part in the final results.
Tomac

 

[hillbilly]

Mark13, after you get yourself a bolt-action rifle, get thee unto these gentlemen.


http://www.badlandstactical.net

 

[benEzra]

I found it easy to keep my groups under 12" with an AK at 100 yards with the iron sights.

Most AK's will do 2-3 MOA off a benchrest with a cold barrel and decent ammo, but their rear sights are notoriously hard to align properly. (A cheap fix is a Mojo rear sight, www.mojosights.com.) Still, there's plenty of room for improvement there. Experimenting with different shooting positions, also (offhand is the least steady).

 

[30Cal]

With iron sights or optics, the wind comes into play at ranges >300yds. You'll need some experience to be able to hit consistantly if there's any wind. As mentioned above, the temperature and other things also play at those ranges, and if you want to score a hit on shot #1, you'll again have to have some experience. If you shoot well at 100yds, then you'll do well within the limits of your rifle and ammo on a calm day.

It takes more skill to shoot well with iron sights, but given an appropriately sized aiming point, a good rifleman w/ iron sights will shoot groups almost at par as with a scoped rifle. Good sights, a good rifle and a good shooter will not have much trouble shooting inside 1MoA at 100yds (1").

Ty

 

[Jon Coppenbarger]

its fun to shoot against the scoped rifles with our standard match ar15's and back a fe years with the m1a.

after the regular match as it was only 100 yards we had either 1 or 2 fun matches where everyone kicked in $5 and you shot 10 shots on the reduced slow prone target. never shot under the 100 score with the open sighted rifles so I never lost in the 6 or 7 times I went there.

but it was fun as I usually was the only one laying out in that hot desert with open sights.

 

[benEzra]

Mark13, are you shooting off a benchrest/sandbags or offhand (standing, holding rifle without other support)? I don't think anyone on this board can shoot 1 MOA offhand.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

At what range does the skill of the shooter really come into play? I have little experience shooting, but I found it easy to keep my groups under 12" with an AK at 100 yards with the iron sights.

I think the skill of the SHOOTER comes into play when you shoot standing (offhand), prone and sitting with no support other than parts of your own body -- like you would in a "real" situation. With a rifle, I suppose this applies anywhere from 50-1000 yards. Beyond 200 yards, you probably would have to move to sitting or prone for stability.

I think the skill of the RELOADER comes into play from the bench. I suppose the skill of the gun-maker comes into play off the bench also.

 

[Feanaro]

I don't think anyone on this board can shoot 1 MOA offhand.

I cannot do that but I am willing to bet a small amount that SOMEONE here can.

 

[KaceCoyote]

I've seen it done with a Super vepr, twice infact. I didnt fire it, I dont have all the specifics other than there wasnt much Vepr left on it and it was a sabot .308 of somesort. this was Standing, unsuported 5rnd groups at 100yards.