Long Range Guys in Here....

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wecklish

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I have seen and researched many threads on here regarding long range guns.
I am wanting to get into long range shooting and I have picked out several options. I have chosen .308 and plan to shoot up to 1000yds. The problem is that none of my local gun shops have any of these for me to touch and feel. I have a list of the guns I like below. Budget will be part of the equation but it is not the deciding factor. Any input you have would be appreciated.

Choices:
1. Accuracy International
2. Sig Blaser
3. Savage 10BA
4. Remington 5R
5. Sako TRG22

Glass will be US Optics or Night Force
 
Thanks stubbicatt. I did not say it was a cheap budget. If it is a 7k package, oh well. I just want to do this once. Do you any experience with AI or US Optics?
 
Thanks. I did look at the FN. Is it in the same league as the others? What do you like about it?
 
Remington 5R with the Nightforce from the choices given. You can get the same capability for a lot less money with a Remington 700 PSS .308 and Leupold optics, and use the money saved to purchase reloading equipment, match grade reloading components, and good cleaning equipment.

My old (Early 90s) 700 PSS with 4.5-14x40 Leupold Vari-X III and three pound Timney trigger will shoot one hole three shot groups at 100 yards and one inch three shot groups at 300 yards with either Black Hills Match or Federal Gold Medal, and under an inch at 300 yards with handloads.

It has on many occasions outshot an unnamed custom rifle owned by a buddy (cough cough Robar SR-90 cough cough) and he paid about three grand more than me for his setup. Makes me laugh everytime :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
leon, i also had a 90s era 700 that would put 4 of 5 shots in one hole... i thought they were all like that and sold it. neither of the other 700s i bought in the 00s were anywhere close to it :(

wecklish, check out zak smith's demigodllc website for long range shooting articles. then go from there.
 
One hole? One cloverleaf? BIG difference. One is a 5 shot agg in the low teens or lower, the other is at least double that, assuming a .30 cal bullet. To clarify, one `one hole, 1/4", .33 moa, .25 moa' group does not make a rifle a one hole shooter. Seriously, the Benchrest folks, who spend huge $$$ to be competetive with aggs in the teens, don't shoot off the rack, Remi-Win-Savagers. It's not because they are rich gun snobs, its because reality has taught them that it takes a large investment in equipment, time and skill to produce that kind of accuracy, consistently.
All that being said, its truly a rare off the rack production rifle that will reliably shoot even cloverleaf groups. Thats a 1/4" group for a .22x rifle, and .33" group for a .30 cal. I'm sure some of you will jump all over this and tell me that you have one! I'm sure some of you do. I would make a lot of money taking bets from all of the folks who claim their rifles shoot `one hole' who in reality either never did it, or did it only once. I'm sure lots of folks after reading all of the internet accuracy stories end up thinking that there is something wrong with them or their rifle.
 
Comparing an Accuracy International rifle to a Remington 5r? Seriously? I guess the folks at AI are fooling a lot of people with all that extra work and $$$. ;)
 
Meta,

I wish I knew how to get a pic on this forum's website, I'm as computer illiterate as the day is long. I'm not going to be the first one to tell you I have one of these rifles you described in your comments. 23 years ago I bought a Rem. 788 in .223, good little Pd shooter, very accurate. The triggers in these originals absolutely sucked, no after markets available. My buddy told me 2 months ago to go onto Brownells and get a Timney, now made for the 788. 2 weeks ago we were at the range, @ 100 yds, I shot a clover leaf 3 shot group, widest measurement was .590, now if one figures MOA, one would subtract the bullet diameter of .224, which gives me a .366 for the MOA. I'd say not too bad for not shooting 100 rounds thru it since new trigger. JMHO Thank you. I paid $125.00 for it.
 
By the sound of it, you have a very accurate rifle, and one heck of a bargain at that. To really test it, however, you should run it for at least a five shot group. While a 3 shot group tells you more than a two shot group, a three shot group is not nearly as statistically significant as a five shot group. Ten shots even more so, or two five shot groups, back to back. If it were easy to even get off the rack production guns to reliably shoot even 1 MOA, all manufacturers would be on it with a guarantee. Most won't and even fewer people can drive their rifles to 1 MOA even if the hardware is capable of it. Minute of deer's vitals, even from a bench, is about what most people expect or can reliably deliver.
 
Mr. Taliv,

Mine shoots better after 2500 rounds than it did out of the box. When I first bought the rifle in 1994 the barrel copper fouled heavily. If I did not clean it throughly every 20 rounds, it took a day of alternating Shooter's Choice and Sweet's 7.62 to get all the fouling out. After I discovered JB Bore Cleaner, the copper fouling issues went away, the surface of the bore was visibly smoother to the eye and I could feel it with the cleaning rod and dry patches. YMMV on using abrasive type cleaners in the bore, but it worked wonders on this particular rifle. The 5 shot groups with 4 in one hole (Mine did that too for a while) became one hole groups.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
I'm partial to the Savage 110BA, not the 10. This has a nice aluminum chassis, 20 MOA rail ready for quality optics and mine shoots well under .5 MOA and my 3" groups at 550 yards are proof it's a quality piece. I have no issue with ranging an Elk at 700 yards and dropping one round downrange for the kill. A.I.'s are awesome too but I couldn't afford the price tag and have any left over for $2k on a scope. Dannng. Yep, I said $2k for my Nightforce 12-42 x 56 NXS scope. It's awesome and after a few trips from the reloading bench to the range I have developed a really sweet load she loves and shows me how much by dumping those rounds nice and close to each other.
Look for other posts by me and you'll see some pics of it and my targets. I'm into the package for about $4200. and it'll shoot a grand easy.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7045268#post7045268
 
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have not handled all of them but i own a couple nightforces and a TRG-42, and savage 10BA have fondled a AI, and shot remington 5r. my personal choice between them would be an 1) AI followed by TRG-22 with either scope mentioned. the savage is a truly great shooter for the money also. I have never regretted buying quality but have paid dearly for saving a buck.
 
wecklish, don't forget that there's the AI AW and AI AE MkII. For anyone thinking of having a custom rifle built, they should seriously look at the AE MkII. I shot a friends new AE back in December and was very impressed with it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=563024&highlight=AE+MKII

At around $3,500, it's about $2,500 cheaper than an AW and comparable in price to many custom rifles. I decided that I wanted the features and durability of the original so I ordered an AW, but I still stand by my statement, the AE is a great option for anyone considering a custom build. Another plus is that you won't have to wait six months to a year. Just call Diann at Mile High Shooting Accessories and you'll have it in a few days.
 
You know I'm sure there are long range shooters here, but i don't know who they are yet. If you go to the G&A forum and look up a guy named Pegasus, he shoots F class 1000 yard competition. He uses a .308 for that. He also shoots mid range which he uses a .223 for. But he knows infinitely more than I can tell you. If you decide to check him out he'll be around all the forums there. He just did a thread about building an F class rifle and it was fairly reasonable. You might check him out. he may come around here now and then too, not sure. I know several from that forum that come here too.
 
Thanks. I did look at the FN. Is it in the same league as the others? What do you like about it?
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah. I'd put it in the middle of the bunch of rifles you listed. I like the McMillan stocks, the claw extractor and the chrome-lined barrels which have an estimated life of 15,000 rounds. Oh, and don't let anyone tell you chrome-lined barrels aren't accurate. FN uses a proprietary application method, and they are very accurate. Also, the upper end models come bedded and with a test fire target.

Don
 
Of those you listed, the Sako TRG would be my choice. It's in the same league as the AI, but for less money. Might the Savage shoot as well? Possibly, but not likely. The Sako is a sure thing. The trigger is remarkable, the ergos great, and it's certainly been proven the world over in the durability department.
As for optics, between USO and Nightforce, I believe the Nightforce is in the same league but with a better price. I love my Nightforce scopes.
 
Meta said:
Of those you listed, the Sako TRG would be my choice. It's in the same league as the AI, but for less money. Might the Savage shoot as well? Possibly, but not likely. The Sako is a sure thing. The trigger is remarkable, the ergos great, and it's certainly been proven the world over in the durability department.
Click to expand...

In fairness, the Sako TRG should be compared to the AE MkII since both actions are secured to the stock/chassis using screws, both have a two-position safety and both have two-stage adjustable triggers. Those models are about the same in price but barrel swaps can be done at home or in field with the AE. Just something to think about if you want to shoot a different cartridge or when it comes time to re-barrel. I'd still choose the AE over the Sako, but then again, I like the ergonomics and aesthetics of the AI stock and I have a bunch of AI magazines so I'm not exactly objective.

I find it interesting that Sako copied just about every aspect of the AW when they designed the TRG ... even down to the octagonal receiver cross section that Walls and Caig selected simply because that's what they had in the shop at the time.
 
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