Longer Range Barrel

[rodwha]

I'd eventually like to get a barrel for my Lyman's Deerstalker (15/16") .50 cal percussion for shooting longer ranger range (100 to 150-175 yds+). I'm not sure which way I'd go as far as projectile. I could use anywhere from a light pistol bullet in a sabot to a full size heavy conical. As I'd like to stretch my range and limit the effects of the wind I'd lean more towards an aerodynamic bullet (FTX, SST, FPB), though I like the idea of a lead full bore conical as there is no need for a sabot

Would I likely do better with a stainless 1:48" twist shallow groove 24" Deerstalker barrel, a 1:48" deep groove 28" Trade Rifle barrel, or looking for a custom barrel?

Lyman's states a 90 grn 3F max charge for lighter bullets, and an 80 grn max charge for heavier bullets/conicals. Maybe there is a custom barrel that has a higher max charge I could use? I'm not sure if it's stripped or not, but a Lyman's barrel costs $280 + shipping/fees.

I intend on putting a Malcolm style scope on this.

 

[Don McDowell]

Maximum charge is due to the barrel wall thickness, not the length.
Have you checked the drop in barrels from Green Mountain?

 

[rodwha]

I have. I hear they aren't making them at the moment. But what I see is a slow twist RB barrel.

 

[rodwha]

I have a thread about wall thickness and maximum charge on another forum.

I don't get why with a 15/16th barrel my max charge with 3F is 90 grns with a .490" PRB in a .50, but with thinner walls it's 100 grns were it with a .530" PRB. It seems the thicker walls of a .50 cal ought to handle more than the .54.

 

[Don McDowell]

I shot 80 grs of 3f with a patched roundball from a 50 tc hawken many many years ago. There was never any problem with accuracy to 200 yds.

 

[rodwha]

I don't trust my estimation of wind drift beyond 100 yds. I might be OK with a 150 yd shot as far as distance guestimation goes, but I wouldn't feel good about it beyond 125 yds (these figures on paper). I'd feel much better with a bullet/conical. The powder charge isn't that big of a deal, but it would certainly be a bit flatter with more.

 

[Don McDowell]

No matter how hard you try you're not going to make that thing into a 270. Best just to learn to deal with what it is, and appreciate the rifle craft associated with making one of them shoot the way they were intended to.
40 years ago an old guy looked at me and my 50 cal maxiballs, and said "son if god would of wanted you to shoot those things out of a rifle, he would of shaped the earth like a maxiball".

 

[rodwha]

Funny 'cause when I first considered a muzzleloader I looked at this from a modern perspective, and scoffed at a RB with it's ultra light weight and poor BC. After hovering around the traditional muzzleloading forums for a while I began to take note of the sheer number of people who would get complete passthroughs using PRB's out to 100 yds and more.

I ditched my want for a saboted bullet in my stalking rifle, and have been using nothing but PRB, though I figure, if given the chance, I'd possibly use something else if I could hunt elk with my .50 cal.

But I've had the opportunity to hunt fields often, and so I figured I'd like a barrel/rifle that can still do such to some extent. No .270 Win, but able to shoot well enough out to 150-175 yds with a moderate charge (~80 grns).

Oh, and I like that guy's saying!

 

[wap41]

if you want to be able to make longer shots,pick up an austin halleck inline 50 cal.They're very accurate and good out to 200+ yds with a sabot.They are made to take up to 150 grns of powder.

 

[rodwha]

I'm just not enamored with the inlines.

I've run the numbers posted by Hodgdon's using 80 grns of 3F and certain bullets, and I can keep them within 4" of zero out to 150-175 yds. I'm OK with that, though 200 yds would be nice...

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Round ball is ok for hunting deer out to about 125 yds. Past that, the aerodynamics of the round ball just slow them down too much. Very little can be done to extend range by adding powder and adding more powder just becomes dangerous.

A bullet barrel however can be extremely accurate and deadly out to 500 yds, BUT most sights for hunting guns are simply not that fine to even aim on a deer beyond 150yds.

It doesn't take a large charge to launch a more aerodynamic bullet and retain much of it's energy out to 200 yds.

Most modern hunters go with the commonly available 50 caliber commercial offerrings, but in actuality, a 45 caliber bullet about 1.25 to 1.5 inches long is far superior. If your state hunting regs permit, you will get better results with a long 45 caliber bullet that a shorter 50.

The Brits figured out over a century ago, that more powder did not increase range as easily as a longer bullet.

Consider that the Buffalo hunters got one shot kills at 400 yds with 70 to 90 grains of powder under a 45 caliber 450 or 500 grain bullets.

In the 1870's the Irish National Marksmen team still used muzzle loaders with long bullets for shooting matches out to 1,000 yds. The Americans beat them at Creedmoor because one Irishman shot at the wrong target.

There is or was a web site devoted to long range muzzle loading shooting. Too shoot beyond 300 to 400 yards normally entails some specialized equipment, and firearms but it is doable.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Someday I really have to transcribe my late uncle's lab notes to a txt file and publish them. One of his many obsessions was longer range and higher velocities from black powder.

His most "successful" experiment was a 69 caliber rifle made with a full length barrel blank. He then made "disks" of solid BP .67 in diameter (43/64) with a .09 (3/32) perforation in the center. As the disks burned inside the perforation the surface area increased giving higher pressures as the ball travel down the barrel.

Dad never let me around him when he was experimenting.

 

[rodwha]

I've mostly been eyeing the Hornady 265 FTX (.225 BC) bullet for the .444 Marlin. It's a nice combination of higher BC and cost, though the .452" 300 grn SST (.250 BC) or full bore .50 cal 350 grn FPB (.285 BC) is even better, but quite costly.

If the max range is just 150 yds there isn't a big need for the heavier or more aerodynamic bullets though... I figure as long as the path stays within 4" +/- of zero I can make guestimates as to the range enough to keep the bullet close enough to POA. That ought to give plenty of room for minor errors. All of this assuming the winds are weak.

But I have to say that it seems odd to put a modern bullet in a sabot through a side lock. It seems proper to use a more traditional projectile. Though not HC I've been eyeing the REAL's mostly, though Lyman's Maxi seems appropriate.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Modern muzzle loader offerings are at best a compromise for modern deer hunters who approach things with the mental "need" to have things look like modern guns and ammo. The Irish National marksmen used side locks in the 1870's.

I have yet to see a bullet offered for the 444 which was long enough to retain long range stability. Again a compromise. It was a rifle version of a pistol cartridge that itself was a gussied up 45 colt. It is good to about 200 yds. I'll put an original trapdoor against a 444 at 500 meters anyday.

 

[rodwha]

550 yds is too far for me. I'd be doing real well to shoot to 200 yds and hit the vitals. I feel any of those bullets would do me well for what I'd need them to do at such a range. With a good rest I'm a fair shot, but by no means a marksman.

 

[Don McDowell]

Ned Roberts Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle is a very good read with tons of info you may find useful.
It's out of print but there are copies floating around.