Looking for a .36 caliber revolver

[dickydalton]

Everything Crawdad says about the 1848/1849 Pockets is true, especially the Pocket Navy in .36, in my experience. They are very small guns and one needs very small fingers, especially concerning the squareback trigger guards. I'll stick to 1851 Navies or larger from now on when shooting larger than .31 cal.

Thanks Crawdad!

I hate to sound contentious but, I have a 2nd Generation Pocket Navy and a 2nd Generation C-Series 1851 Navy. I have never seen an 1862 Pocket Navy with a square back trigger guard but my 1851 Colt has one. I just put the caliper to them because the pocket navy always seemed to have more room in the trigger guard than the 1851 and it does. Directly in front of the trigger there is .835" of vertical clearance on the pocket Navy and only .732" on the 1851. The grip is smaller but I like it as much as the 1851. Don't forget that the 1849 Pocket outsold all the other models.

 

[swathdiver]

I stand corrected then, did not realize a hollow base would swage up that much.

 

[expat_alaska]

I hate to sound contentious but, I have a 2nd Generation Pocket Navy and a 2nd Generation C-Series 1851 Navy. I have never seen an 1862 Pocket Navy with a square back trigger guard but my 1851 Colt has one. I just put the caliper to them because the pocket navy always seemed to have more room in the trigger guard than the 1851 and it does. Directly in front of the trigger there is .835" of vertical clearance on the pocket Navy and only .732" on the 1851. The grip is smaller but I like it as much as the 1851. Don't forget that the 1849 Pocket outsold all the other models.

dickydalton, you are most correct that the 1862 Pocket Navy never had a squareback trigger guard. I was remiss in my post: I did not mean to infer that. I was concurring with Crawdad about the small dimensions of the Pocket Pistols and that it would make it harder to handle in .36 caliber than in .31 caliber. Sometimes my fingers are ahead of my gray matter.

My 1848 ASM (Replica Arms El Paso Texas) squareback is very small, whereas my pinkie finger cannot engage the grip/gripframe, and I have long, skinny fingers with a wide palm.

I much prefer my Pietta 1851 Navy squareback, and it has .870" vertical clearance whereas the ASM 1848 Pocket squareback has only .752".

Therein is the reason why Colt phased out the squareback trigger guard.

Legend has it that his friend Col. William A. Talcot (a military inspector whose initials WAT are seen on many pistols) was instrumental in securing an early military contract for the 1851 Navies and preferred the Dragoon style squareback guard purely for its aesthetic purposes, and when Talcot was convicted in a courts-martial Colt went to the oval/round trigger guard. (Source: '51 Colt Navies/Nathan L. Swayze/1967/page 29).

Sorry for the miscue, dicky.

 

[TruthTellers]

I stand corrected then, did not realize a hollow base would swage up that much.

I can't say that the hollow base .38 bullets will swage fully into the grooves, but it will swage up way better than any regular lead bullet will.

From a source I've read, lead will begin swaging at 480 times the hardness of the lead. Pure lead is 5 BHN, so that means at 2400 PSI pure lead will expand and continue to as pressure increases. A lead with a hardness of 15 BHN will start expansion at 7200 PSI. I don't know what pressures .38 special cowboy loads are but I would assume they are a lot greater than 7200 PSI and the bullets are likely softer than 15 BHN. Thus, I would imagine that a hollow base lead bullet will swage up to fill a good enough amount of the rifling.

I'm sure there are others here that might be able to explain it better and with better detail and accuracy. I'm just going off what I've read and educated conjecture.

 

[StrawHat]

Is there a reason Taylor's hasn't made a conversion cylinder yet? Is the cylinder too small to fit five .38's?

The problem with a conversion cylinder is the geometry of the rear of the cylinder is such that fitting five cartridge and the hand into the space is not going to work. I believe that all of the cartridge revolvers built on the Pocket frame were built at the factory and had reworked frames and new made cylinders.

Kevin

 

[perldog007]

Another .02 USD ......



This is one of my favorite set ups for goofing off in yonder woods. These two items on a nice 2" belt so we may divest ourselves of arms, a sporran for a possibles bag, maybe a folding knife and of course a walking/root stick and one is ready to sally forth and bag some fresh root tea of some sort.

If I posted a three shot seven yard offhand group I'd likely have my veracity questioned but it was less than 1.5 inches and only took the first three in the cylinder to find the elevation at that range. Seemed about four inches low. Right in the orange and the 'X' lost it's virginity. I ain't hardly superman so that got my attention.

The weapon feels like an extension of most hands and I would hazard to say that men with medium large to large hands would be using a 'pinky under' grip in at least some postures. Very little to no recoil loaded full of pyrodex ffg and a round ball seated of proper diameter to shave a ring.

Very trustworthy if you keep busted caps out of the works. Takes a little practice and forethought but worth it. I have the Pietta 1851 Navy case hardened frame brass grip frame and triggerguard, which oddly enough I like now that I have it. Also have the Pietta 1860 army clone, love it a lot, and two 1858s' that are very nice.

The 1851 just has something about it which means you need one. IMO a really nice piece whether on the range, on display, worn as a 'bbq' gun, or actually afield as a working woods gun. Every design is a set of compromises, BP, modern, historical fixed cartridge, whatever. But the 1851 has an aura about it. The first belt sized fighting pistol that could both be carried easier for a significant weight savings, it was capable of surprising accuracy, and it was popular throughout the cap and ball era, not to mention a lick platform for a .38 Colt conversion.

Largest critters are normally black bear, bobcats, coyotes. Standard weapon in those parts is a walking stick, most commonly carried firearm is .22 lr of some sort. There are places where a BP 1851 would be legal for deer and feral hogs, I would rather have 'more' for that. For plinking, target shooting, small to medium game, and G-d forbid self defense of hearth or home the 1851 is still the same gun it was when Hickock famously made the 75 yard shot on Davis Tutt with.

I am now pining for an 1861 Uberti and an 1862 Metro Police with the lanyard ring in that order. But I would tell anyone start with the 1851. We are the best at everything because we have rules.

 

[Crawdad1]

Much more that 2 cents Perldog because you're dead on. Just for its perfect balance the '51 Navy more than justifies its price tag.

Sweet hunting rig also!!!

 

[TruthTellers]

So Cabela's has this on sale now for $180. It's a steel frame '51 Navy. I've never seen a steel frame C&B sell for less than $200 at Cabela's. Does anyone have any info or experiences with this gun?

http://www.cabelas.com/product/shoo...volvers/_/N-1115136/Ns-CATEGORY_SEQ_567338580

 

[jim226]

I bought one of the Cabela's '51 Navy revolvers a couple of weeks ago. I haven't fired it yet but it seems to be a great gun for the money. Timing and lockup are good.

My only complaint is that the wood grips are ill fitting. They are slightly oversized on the frame. This is especially annoying on the front strap. I also ordered an 1860 at the same time and it has the same issue.

It isn't too big a deal to me since I'd like to refinish the grips anyway. I'm not a fan of the red-ish color stain the Italians use.

 

[BigHunt 1981]

Here is the text of my review I posted on the Cabela's website after receiving my revolver just before Christmas. BTW it was on sale at the time for $159.00 plus shipping of like $15.99 so its only about $4.00 more right now and definitely a good deal. As you will see in the review mine had minor problems, but overall it has been a good revolver and shoots great!

I purchased this revolver as a replacement for a 44 caliber Navy I had sold some years back. When I received the revolver I immediately noticed the poor fit and finish on this revolver compared to my 2003 model. Rough scratches in the brass grip frame and poor wood to metal fit. Also it would not stay cocked because the hand that rotates the cylinder was too long and was causing the cylinder to advance too far and bind against the locking bolt. I completely stripped the revolver and correctly fitted the hand and locking bolt and now the revolver cocks and locks up perfectly. Although not a major problem for someone with knowledge of the inner workings of a Colt, a novice would be left with a gun that was non functioning requiring a trip to the gunsmith or back to the factory.

 

[expat_alaska]

So Cabela's has this on sale now for $180. It's a steel frame '51 Navy. I've never seen a steel frame C&B sell for less than $200 at Cabela's. Does anyone have any info or experiences with this gun?

http://www.cabelas.com/product/shoot..._SEQ_567338580

Neither have I. I bought mine from Cabela's just after Christmas 2014 for $199 and change. Same pistol but it was not advertised as a "Yank". DGW lists a Pietta 1851 Navy Yank (RH0844) but it has a silver-plated backstrap.

I'm still hoping they put the Pietta Griswold and Gunnison on sale at Thanksgiving or Christmas! Any discount from $220 would be appreciated.

Jim

 

[perldog007]

So Cabela's has this on sale now for $180. It's a steel frame '51 Navy. I've never seen a steel frame C&B sell for less than $200 at Cabela's. Does anyone have any info or experiences with this gun?

http://www.cabelas.com/product/shoo...volvers/_/N-1115136/Ns-CATEGORY_SEQ_567338580

That is the model I have, many decry the grip shape, it works well for me. Practicality dictates an 1858 for many reasons but there is something elegant about the way the Colt patterns come alive in the hand. I don't think you can go wrong at that price point. If you do get a lemon it should get straightened out in due course and most report good results with this replica. The little bit of woods loafing I've been able to do where I can carry this was my go to for those outings where one 'doesn't need a gun'. Getting ready to acquire kaido's .36 mold and explore conicals. Round ball is most impressive.

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Crawdad1

A Ruger in .36 caliber, would be a "RON" as opposed to the .44/.45 "ROA".

And there are a few of them "RON's" in the hands of us NMLRA line match competitors.

I'd throw up a photo of my .36 caliber Ruger "Old Navy" (Hope thet clothing store chain don't sue me), but this thread is more about commonly found .36 caliber replica revolvers of the 19th century.

I guess I can post my "Old Navy" in the "Ruger Old Army Club", along with its "big brother", my Ruger Old Army, "Dragoon Model" (unofficial designation) with its Super Blackhawk grip-frame, wide trigger, square-back brass grip-frame, & blued finish.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

D. Buck Stopshere - Were not the Whitneys that the Rugers resemble .36's?

 

[Crawdad1]

Buck you got to be pulling my chain.

I never saw one advertised, maybe customized from a ROA, but, a 36 caliber from the Ruger Factory???

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Ephraim, the Whitney replicas are .36 caliber, but the Ruger Old Army leans more to the Ruger Blackhawk design since that is its "parent" than to the Whitney .36 caliber.

Its actually hard to call the Ruger Old Army (or "Navy") a "replica" revolver.

The Whitney .36 caliber revolver leans closer, with its octagon barrel to the Remington .36 caliber belt revolver, even with its shorter barrel. Again, IMHO.

I think "commonly found" should be emphasized here. I admitted to the possession of a Ruger .36 caliber revolver to get Crawdad's attention (it worked), but due to less than 50 out there, it would not be a candidate for the original poster.

The Muzzleloading Forum at www.muzzleloadingforum.com had a Whitney .36 caliber replica Revolver for sale just a few weeks ago and it sold for $400.


Crawdad1, yes it is a custom-worked Ruger Old Army. It is fitted with a brand new round or octagon (I think mine has a six-sided barrel) 9mm caliber barrel fitted with a patridge front sight and a Bo-Mar adjustable rear sight. The cylinder chambers are sleeved with stainless steel tubes. Everything else is standard Ruger Old Army parts.

I'm guessing maybe less than 50 were converted to .36 caliber by competent gunsmiths known only among national-level shooters. Respected by both N-SSA & NMLRA revolver competitors back in the '80's and '90's, Tom "Mulie" Ball was the "Go-To" guy. Others were produced by Dick Bauer & Tri-L gunmaker, Rob Lewis.

Their use would have been seen only at Friendship (IN) at the National Matches, and may have appeared at various State Shoots around the country.

You might see one show up on Gunbroker in your lifetime. Usually, they are sold to fellow competitors at the national matches. I bought mine from the 1997 National Muzzle Loading Pistol Champion, a friend of mine, who I shot against from 1986 to 1999 at Friendship.

I'll post my Ruger "Old Navy" and customized Ruger Old Army "Dragoon Model" (my name for it) .44 caliber on the Ruger Club page soon.

 

[kBob]

I think the commonality was a man named Beals.

An engineer/machinist of note. He did his early work under Root at Colts, moved on to Remington and then on to Whitney.

You know Clemons/Twain made fun of Colt's with his "Boss" character in his CYiKAC, but fact is it seems half of all 19th century gun-dom worked for them early on at some point.

-kBob

 

[swathdiver]

D. Buck Stopshere - Were not the Whitneys that the Rugers resemble .36's?

The Old Army was influenced by the Remington New Model Army for its top strap design and long frame forward to secure the barrel and two screw lock work. It was also influenced by the Whitney Revolver for it's loading lever design. And of course the Old Army and its counterpart the Black Hawk by the Colt 1851 Navy and later 1873 Peacemaker for the grip and frame.

Of course, Bill Ruger and his engineers improved on each of these features and produced what is arguably the best cap and sixgun ever.

We particularly enjoy shooting the version with the longer dragoon grips which are akin to the 1860 Army.

 

[Eric N.]

I received my 1851 Navy "Yank" today. Fit and finish is near perfect.