Looking for a SA revolver...

[Wolfsburg]

Greetings gents!

I've lurked THR off and on for years and I've decided to actually join here in search for information and advice.


I've been lusting for a single-action revolver for a while now and would like some guidance on what I should get. Whatever I get would only be used for occasional, recreational plinking. Though not new to guns in general, I am new to the world of 19th century style pistols/clones.

I originally wanted a third-generation Colt SAA but soon realized that buying one would be beyond my budget. So I've been looking at some of the Uberti and USFA clones. The higher-end USFA pieces are too pricey although the Rodeos seem more reasonable. However, I really don't like the matte black finish.


While I like the classic lines of the 1873 Colt SAA, after looking at the Italian clones and those from Cimarron Firearms specifically, I've come to really like (prefer?) the look of some of the open top/blackpowder revolvers (the Colt Walker and Colt Dragoon particularly), however they are not offered as conversions and I am not interested in getting into blackpowder shooting. Would it be worth buying a conversion cylinder for a black powder revolver? How cumbersome would it be to load or eject cartridges from such a home-made conversion?

I've also taken notice of some of the "factory" conversions from Uberti and like the looks of the Richards Transition model distributed by Cimarron as a compromise. What is the history of this piece (well, the gun that was inspiration of the clone)? Any opinion on this one or others?

I've heard good things about the Ruger Blackhawk and Vaquero, but I'd rather have something a little more authentic to the original designs.

Whatever I get will purely be a sub-$1000, non-practical toy for recreational shooting so I look forward to any advice or information anyone can give me.

 

[bluetopper]

Welcome to the forum Wolfsburg.

Great first posting with some great questions, I just wish I could answer them. HA

 

[MovedWest]

Are you wanting to stick with .45LC or are you up for other calibers? Do you want to shoot this new pistol or add it to a "collection"?

Rugers are great guns - I own several of their SA's. I'm not as big on the Vaquero's as I am on the Blackhawks. They look better and feel more comfortable in my hands. The Blackhawks are also virtually indestructible. Super cheap, too!

My best advice for a new gun owner is look for ammunition for the gun first. Find the caliber you want to shoot, make sure it's as easy as well as having a variety of rounds, and buy a gun it fits in. Nothing sucks worse than going to the range, asking for a box of .41 magnum ammo and having them say "sorry, we don't have that". Wal-Mart is a good gauge of ammo variety and availability. Not that I particularly like Wally World, but darn if they don't have cheap ammo. After going through 10 boxes your first month you want to still be able to afford range fees and/or groceries. Being able to afford to take your gun out is important.

If you're just starting out your collection I might suggest another caliber other than 45LC. The variety of ammo is very slim. If you want the stopping power consider a 44mag super blackhawk and fire 44special out of it to begin with. It will be about the same price to shoot as a 45LC, looks as cool, and will hit harder than any 45 you'll ever see. The size is a bit intimidating if you need to defend yourself also.

If you just want a SA pistol to get you shooting, I recommend a 9mm/357 convertible blackhawk from Ruger. You can shoot darn near anything out if it including: 9mm, 380(9mm short), 38 special, 38 special+P, and 357 magnum; hollow points, FMJ, wadcutters, shotshells... anything. Most of it is cheap and easy to find.

-MW

 

[owlhoot]

Wolfsberg. I am a 19th century gun junkie. I think I can answer all your questions, at least from my perspective.

First, yes, the Rugers are well designed, durable revolvers. I have worn one out, but it took years of hard work. However, they are modern guns.

The USFA Rodeo is a fine gun. Like you, I hate the finish, but be advised that it is also available in a satin nickel finish that is more attractive than the matte black. If you go for a Rodeo, get it from Longhunter supply. It will cost a bit more, but it will come with an action job second to none.

Regarding conversion models, I like them too. I have a pair of the Richards Mason conversions, a pair of 1872 open tops, and a pair of 58 Remington's. I got all of mine from Cimarron and they are all made by Uberti. I enjoy these revolvers greatly. I load black powder cartridges for mine, but you can use smokeless loads. However, I would never shoot a +P load in one of these guns. And in .45 Colt caliber I wouldn't use anything stronger than the cowboy loads. Actually, I shoot .45 Schofield loads in mine which are less powerful than the .45 Colt loads.

I am hesitant to fully recommend one of these revolvers unless you intend to get an action job because all of mine took a bit of tinkering before they were what I would call truly satisfactory. Although for just ocassional plinking, I don't suppose it would matter. But I put a lot of rounds through mine and I shoot them in competition, so I am picky.

If you'll go to Taylor's website and look at their "Smokewagon" model, you might find that you like it. This is another revolver that comes slick as a ribbon from the distributor. They cost more than the standard model, but believe me, they are worth it. The "Evil Roy" model from Cimarron also has a good reputation but I don't have personal experience with it.

The Great Western II models from EMF come very well tuned and they have beautiful finishes on the top of the line models, however the California model works just as well - just isn't quite as pretty.

Regarding the horse pistols. If you got a conversion sylinder for one of these, it would run your costs up considerably. I believe somebody makes a cylinder for the dragoon at something like $275. Of course you will have no loading gate or ejector rod and taking the revolver apart each time you reload will become a royal pain in short order. If you want to shoot big bullets in a conversions get the Remington or the R or R/M conversion.

 

[calaverasslim]

What owlhoot said. It appears he shoots CAS as I used to and they have quite a bit experience with SA's.

I prefer the USFA, they are some of the finest working SA's right out of the box. I have several Colt SAA's as well as several USFA's and my go to sixgun is the USFA Gunslinger. I prefer the traditional sixgun but if loading 6 instead of 5 is your choice, the Ruger has a good handgun.

However stay away from the BP and trying to buy and use conversion cylinders. A real PITA

Whatever your choice, if the sixgun you buy does not already have an action job, be aware all of these sixguns need one. You can get by without one but once you try one, you won't got back.

Matter of fact, I have a Ruger SBH that has an Oglesby action job and I love it.

Whatever your choice, good luck. Whole new world

 

[madcratebuilder]

While I like the classic lines of the 1873 Colt SAA, after looking at the Italian clones and those from Cimarron Firearms specifically, I've come to really like (prefer?) the look of some of the open top/blackpowder revolvers (the Colt Walker and Colt Dragoon particularly), however they are not offered as conversions and I am not interested in getting into blackpowder shooting. Would it be worth buying a conversion cylinder for a black powder revolver? How cumbersome would it be to load or eject cartridges from such a home-made conversion?
I've also taken notice of some of the "factory" conversions from Uberti and like the looks of the Richards Transition model distributed by Cimarron as a compromise. What is the history of this piece (well, the gun that was inspiration of the clone)? Any opinion on this one or others?

You can buy conversion cylinders that have a loading gate, it well require a minor mod on the frame. This would be the least expensive way to achieve a period correct revolver.
The Richards Transition model is a reasonable clone of a period revolver.
The Colt SAA was just a small part of the 19th century revolver market. Very few had the money to buy a new SAA, many of the C&B pistols had cartridge conversion done.
My personal favorite is a 1860 Colt Army with a loading gate conversion cylinder. The Remington New Model Army makes a nice conversion also.

 

[Harve Curry]

If you are patient and shop around you may find a good used Colt SAA for $900 to $1000.
What caliber do you want? Do you reload?
38/357 is probably the most economical to shoot.
I think 44 Special is the most suited for a SAA size frame, plus you can have another cylinder for 44-40.
45 Colt is the original chambering.

 

[Wolfsburg]

Thanks all for the advice so far!

I do not reload and would prefer something in .45LC or .44 Special.

I will look into some other revolvers mentioned such as the "Smokewagon".

What is the correct nomenclature of the Richards Transition Model? If I'm going to consider it, I guess I ought to know what it really was.

It's a shame no one offers a conversion of the Walker or Dragoon. Historically, were conversions done on these?

Regarding having action jobs done: I would really only use whatever I buy for occasional plinking. As long as the piece functions fine and does not feel like it has sand in it, it really isn't a big deal if it's less than perfect. I guess my expectations are fairly low. I certainly will never use it for competition shooting, and at most it probably won't get more than a few hundred rounds through it a year.

 

[BrandonBowers]

I'll second the Ruger vote of confidence. Have had multiple Vaqueros but switched to Blackhawks for the adjustable sights. Good, VERY strong guns.

 

[Meeteetse]

I've been using Ruger SA's since the late 1960's. They are strong, reasonably accurate and best of all, affordable. I currently have a single six .22, SBH .44, two old model Vaquero's in .44, two BH .357's, two BH 45/45's and an old model Vaquero sheriff's model in .45 colt. Each and everyone of them is fun to shoot. I know they are not as authentic as a Colt, but you can shoot them for a life time and never worry about wearing them out. The new Vaquero is similar to the Colt Model P and a whole lot cheaper.

 

[Wolfsburg]

Thanks! The Ruger products certainly seem to be well liked based on what I'm reading here and elsewhere.

 

[SwampWolf]

I've heard good things about the Ruger Blackhawk and Vaquero, but I'd rather have something a little more authentic to the original designs.

The new New Vaquero is pretty darn authenic in terms of appearance to the original Colt design. And, as others have noted, few single-action revolvers are as tough as the Ruger is.

 

[MovedWest]

I do not reload and would prefer something in .45LC or .44 Special.

If you're at this stage, get a super blackhawk. Granted it's a 44 magnum, but you can fire 44 special through it interchangeably. The ammo is the same price as 45LC, but instead of having 4-6 choices of cowboy rounds you have a zillion choices of whatever you wanna put down range. You can plink or you can hunt bear - and anything in between. There is nothing a 45 can do that a 44 can't do.

at most it probably won't get more than a few hundred rounds through it a year.

At this rate you can afford to feed it whatever you want in comparison to a 45LC. Get a nice set of grips for it, install a lightened trigger from Midway USA ($9) and you have a pistol that can drive nails while being the envy of the range. There is absolutely no limit to what the gun can do.

IMO - the 7 1/2" barrel SBH has the best balance and feel (EVERYONE who picks up my pistol comments on the superb balance):

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=802&return=Y

My 2 cents,
-MW

 

[shootistpd27]

Taurus makes a fine 45 lc

I bought a Taurus lc brand new for only $425. It had the modern safety so you didnt have to leave it resting on an empty cylinder. I loved the gun and have kicked myself every since for trading it for an automatic. Taurus has an awesome warranty also.

 

[MovedWest]

you didnt have to leave it resting on an empty cylinder

The 'new model blackhawks'/'new model super blackhawks' have the transfers bar that do not require resting the hammer on an empty cylinder. The old models with the 3 screws on the right side of the receiver are old model units. Wonderful in their own right, but different guns.

-MW

 

[Stainz]

I won't join the new Ruger bandwagon. I have had a wide mix of their revolvers, SA & DA. They have all been delivered as 'works in progress', ie, needed some cleanup as a minimum to function properly. And - they are not historically significant, as even the 'New Vaquero' is not a copy of anything. If you want a Colt copy that looks nice and works well out of the box, get a Uberti clone. If you want one with a utilitarian finish that is made where - or near where - Sam Colt's originals were, grab a USFA Rodeo. Okay, Sam didn't have CNC machines...

Now, if you want the original mass produced centerfire metallic cartridge revolver, a nice copy of the S&W #3 in .44 Russian is made by Uberti/Navy Arms. That revolver and cartridge combo beat Colt to the marketplace by two years - and more were made in the first ten years than Colt would make of his Model P by the 1920s. The .44 Russian ammo, a short .44 Special type case only made previously in black powder, is made by a few specialty reloaders in smokeless today. Neat little cartridge - I shoot them in my .44 Specials & Magnums.

Stainz

 

[cane]

Uberti makes copies of the 1872 "open top" in various calibers which is available through various importers. They look like cap and ball pistols but are built as cartridge pistols.

 

[LightningMan]

Owlhoot Quote; First, yes, the Rugers are well designed, durable revolvers. I have worn one out, but it took years of hard work. However, they are modern guns.

Man! That had to be some job, to wear out a Ruger! If you don't mind, what exactly wore out? And were you able to replace parts & fix it? I bought my first pair about 2 years ago (have another pair now) and have shot them a lot for Cowboy Action, plus the usual dry firing practice. They just keep on working but I do take care of them by completely taking them apart twice a year for complete cleanings. While I have them apart I check for wear on the parts and I'm supprized that I can't find any. One of the reasons for going to the Ruger Vaquaro's was that I was always breaking something on the Colt style clones. I think I broke every spring in my USFA's including a reduced power main spring and not to mention broken bolt legs, and I also snapped a hand in two! I thought I was hard on these types of guns but to wear out a Ruger, my hats off to anyone that can do that. LM

 

[Coyote3855]

I broke, or wore out, two Ruger Vaqueros. One broke the hammer plunger spring and the other broke the pawl. That was after 10 years of CAS. I was disappointed, as I also check for wear and had no forewarning of the failures.

 

[SwampWolf]

If a time machine could whiz you back to the wild west frontier, sometime between 1873 and 1900, and you could only pack one single-action revolver, which factory model being made today would it be? And, to make the choice even more difficult (or easy, as I happen to believe), you would not be able to modify the revolver in any way, nor replace or repair a broken part.

 

[Wolfsburg]

lol!

Well, that would narrow it down!


I've actually been eyeing the USFA SAAs, but to get one like I'd want it would cost too much.

 

[greyling22]

the open tops, conversions, SAA style and remingtion guns all feel, point and shoot differently. handle them and see what you like. the conversions point the best for me, but they do not load and unload to my liking. I like the looks of the remmy's but not the handling. etc.

I hightly recommend going to a cowboy shoot and making friends to see what you like.