Looking for first rifle purchase: advice welcome!

[Segm3nt]

Good Afternoon All,

I'm new here. I've been reading a lot of opinions over last year or so and I am about to pull the trigger.

I've been looking for my first rifle. I've taken a gander at mini14s, mini30s, m1a's, ar15s, aks, etc.

So what am I looking for?
-Accuracy up to 500 yards (marines used iron sights from that distance with m16s to qualify)
-Quality and something that will last against the elements
-Light weight and versatile
-Home defense and possible survival if needed
-Hunting (I'd like to learn one day)
-Fun

A little background into who I am; I am now divorced, I need a hobby and I miss shooting. I served in 1st Bn 2d Marines and know the m16 and m4 very intricately. I am a novice, make no mistake in that... I'm seeking advice for my first rifle.

I don't personally think the ar15 is a good fit for me. Everyone recommends I get one since that's where my experience is... But hunting is out sorta, cleaning and carbon build up isn't ideal, I've experienced jams more frequently than not and in a high pressure situation is not ideal. Most of all, semiauto isn't important to me. I've always been told, take well aimed shots, 1 shot 1 kill.

This leads me to tell you that I'm on the verge of purchasing a Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle. I think it fits my bill.

Advice welcome, I know I am not as educated, so take it easy on me. I'm looking for my first rifle purchase. I think my budget would be around $800 (less is welcome) for my first buy.Thanks in advance!

-Travis

 

[briansmithwins]

The bolt action .308 isn't a bad deal, but make sure you know the price difference in ammo before you commit.

I shoot about 1000 rounds a year. At that rate the price difference between .308 and .223 pays for a rifle in 2-3 years.

BSW

 

[chicharrones]

Good Afternoon All,

I'm new here.

Welcome to the forum, Segm3nt!

This leads me to tell you that I'm on the verge of purchasing a Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle. I think it fits my bill.

The good thing about a rifle like the Ruger GSR is it is easily adapted to try out different configurations until you know what you like in a rifle.

You have three or more sighting systems. One - the included open sights. Two - mounting a scout scope on the included forward rail. Three - mounting a traditional scope over the receiver with the included scope rings. Or mount a red dot out there on the forward rail.

You have the adjustable length of pull (with the 3 included stock spacers) so the gun fits you no matter whether you shoot with a thick jacket on or just in a t-shirt.

You can keep the flash hider on (muzzle brake in the polymer stocked GSR), or remove it and put on some other muzzle device. Of course, you can pull either off the gun to keep the overall length down.

You have a variety of magazines and magazine capacities to choose from as well to suit your shooting wants or needs.

Yep, .308 ammo is more expensive than .223 ammo. The amount of ammo money you spend on a range trip depends on how many times you pull the trigger per range trip. Most regular shooters I know pull the trigger far fewer times when shooting .308 in a bolt gun compared to .223 in any gun. So, the price for .308 seems to comes down a bit per range trip.

 

[coloradokevin]

I kind of feel like you have some opposing interests on this subject. If you're looking for something for home defense, a carbine-length semi-automatic is the logical choice. But, if you're mainly looking for an accurate and simple/reliable range gun for 500 yard shooting, I think you'd be happy with a number of the bolt action rifles that are on the market from companies such as Tikka, Remington, etc (perhaps Ruger, too, I just can't speak for them personally).

For the hunting aspect I'd recommend something in the .308 Win range. The .308 can be used on any North American game animal, it's an accurate round, and it has great barrel life. There's also a wide variety of ammo available in this cartridge, ranging from match loads to hunting and plinking loads. It's a good place to start for medium to long range target shooting, and decent off-the-shelf bolt guns in that caliber should be available to you in the $500-800 range.

As for the AR-15, any good example of these rifles should be far more reliable than you described. I put over 7,000 rounds through my department-issued Colt without a single malfunction, and probably have nearly that many rounds through my personally owned S&W (no malfunctions, but one safety detent replaced for around $2 after about 4,000 rounds). If you want to hunt with an AR style rifle, you can get an AR-10 in .308 Win.

The Mini 14 and Mini 30 platform don't really hold any interest to me. People generally describe these rifles as being less accurate and less reliable than the comparable AR-15 platform rifles. AK's are very reliable, but not noted for their accuracy. Their great for making noise, or for plinking targets at less than 100 yards. Some folks use better examples of these rifles for longer range stuff (usually to no more than 300 yards), but they are definitely not as accurate as an AR.

 

[chicharrones]

I kind of feel like you have some opposing interests on this subject. If you're looking for something for home defense, a carbine-length semi-automatic is the logical choice.

Good point. My GSR is very low on the list in my thoughts for a home defense gun. I rely on handguns for that.

 

[fotheringill]

Assuming you will NOT be reloading, don't think that you will be shooting $.33 rounds of .223 with any sort of accuracy. Any really decent .223 ammo is going to cost $.85/round and upwards.

I have a Savage 12 F/TR in .223 which is a single shot target rifle. Let me tell you, there is a big gap between firing and loading the next round for me.

 

[justin22885]

you can get everything you just mentioned in a military semi auto, and it would typically be more fun and better for home/self defense than a bolt action, the AK, the SKS, and the VZ58 are the three id look at for semi autos, all inexpensive, and all can be had in 7.62x39 which would be perfect for hunting as well, accuracy out to 500 with x39 can by iffy though, my 5.56 AK will easily hit 500 yards at 2MOA with M855 ammo though

in terms of bolt actions, there arent a lot of bolt actions i like, not with so many great milsurp actions available, if you think you can handle a more powerful cartridge, the mosin nagants are dirt cheap and ammo is about $100 for 440 rounds, so, almost as cheap as .22 to shoot, but one of the most fun bolt actions out there in my opinion are lee enfields, these things can be shot pretty quickly, their action was designed in a way to allow very rapid fire from a bolt action.. the ishapor SMLE rifle in particular is a .308 caliber lee enfield that feeds from a box magazine, i would take an ishapor SMLE rifle over a ruger gunsite any day

another category of rifles i tend to find more fun than bolt actions, are lever actions, they can be fired much more rapidly, and theyre generally more fun to work in my opinion, something like the browning BLR is a .308 caliber box magazine fed lever action.. incredibly accurate, full .308 power, detachable box magazine fed, and the entire rifle weighs less than an AR-15, so when you combine the reliability of the manually operated rifles, the speed of the lever action, and the power and accuracy of a 308, you cant get much more versatile and lightweight than that

so for a semi auto, AK, SKS, or VZ58

for a bolt action, mosin nagant or ishapor 308 if you want something more like a scout

for a lever action, the browning BLR

 

[d2wing]

I recommend a Tikka T3 and a Leupold scope. Very accurate and reliable and well made. Either .223 or .308 are good choice for range work. I have one in 7-08 I really like. .243 is a good range round as well, especially if you reload. I have always had good luck with Remington 700's as well.

 

[Segm3nt]

From the videos I've been watching... The fire rate of the ruger gsr doesn't seem that bad. I cant imagine needing to take more than a few shots for home defense especially when a 308 hits someone's chest.

I realize semi auto is ideal for home defense, but I have a hand gun at home too.

I will take what you guys said into consideration. Thanks for advice so far... It is very appreciated! Just had my sights on ruger gsr and now I'm gonna rethink it, haha.

 

[CB900F]

Segm3nt;

I don't think the Ruger is a bad idea at all. But, for inexpensive practice, learning the in's and out's of breath control, trigger squeeze, sight picture, etc., etc., it makes sense to also get yourself a bolt-action .22 rifle. Now that .22lr ammo is (albeit slowly) returning to the open market at fair prices.

Because I'm a lefty, the market for LHB .22's is limited and mine are all CZ's. However, I can without reservation whatsoever, recommend them to anybody. Not the least expensive on the market, but a long way from the highest priced. They are the best bang-for-the-buck you're going to get these days. You'll never regret buying one IMHO, and also be the literal odd man out if you can hold it to just one. Go over to triple w dot rimfire central dot com, the CZ/BRNO forum and you'll get ample confirmation of what I'm talking about. Look at the number of posters on other gun forums vs CZ, and look at the targets posted.

And I thank you for your service.
900F

 

[chicharrones]

I realize semi auto is ideal for home defense, but I have a hand gun at home too.

You should be good to go with the handgun, assuming it's in a good self defense caliber with adequate capacity.

I will take what you guys said into consideration. Thanks for advice so far... It is very appreciated! Just had my sights on ruger gsr and now I'm gonna rethink it, haha.

Since mil-surps were brought up, I can tell you from my long time ownership of an SKS, a Swiss K31, and an 1896 Swede, the K31 is the only one that will outshoot my Ruger GSR at range. The Swede probably would have if it were in better condition, but mil-surp guns can be hit and miss. My brother has a vastly larger mil-surp collection than I do, but as a whole they aren't capable of shooting as well as a commercially made bolt gun either. Except his own K31. A K31 is worthy of serious consideration if looking for an affordable but great shooting mil-surp.

Back to the SKS, the only thing it does better than a commercially made bolt gun is shoot 10 rounds faster. Which is okay for 100 yards or less shooting. BTW, my SKS is the first rifle I got 20+ years ago and shooting paper with it is not satisfying at all. Shooting larger non-paper targets at closer range, sure.

The other thing with most of the mil-surps out there is mounting of optics. If you need a scope, you're going to have to come up with a way to mount it and you will need to come up with a way to raise your cheek on the stock so you can see through the scope properly. Plus, many mil-surps (mainly semi-autos) do not have as nice of triggers as commercially made bolt guns.

 

[ford8nr]

From the videos I've been watching... The fire rate of the ruger gsr doesn't seem that bad. I cant imagine needing to take more than a few shots for home defense especially when a 308 hits someone's chest.

The over penetration and muzzle blast of a .308 in a home defense situation makes it a very poor choice. Bolt action Rugers, Winchesters, Remington's or any other major manufacturer should get you MOA accuracy or pretty close. For your list of uses I still think a decent AR15 would serve you well. Beware of personal internet claims of accuracy regarding anything without match score sheets or GOOD video.

 

[chicharrones]

Because I'm a lefty, the market for LHB .22's is limited and mine are all CZ's. However, I can without reservation whatsoever, recommend them to anybody. Not the least expensive on the market, but a long way from the highest priced. They are the best bang-for-the-buck you're going to get these days. You'll never regret buying one IMHO, and also be the literal odd man out if you can hold it to just one.

I agree on a CZ bolt gun if willing to try a .22 rifle. They are very well made, shoot well right out of the box, and have some of the best magazines to feed any .22 ammo from.

 

[fotheringill]

I have two CZ's 452's. One was a shooter NIB, the other needed pillaring and bedding to reach its potential. Both are superior to Savage, Marlin or Ruger.

Steel magazines are terrific, and so are the plastic ones.

 

[Segm3nt]

I will look into CZs tonight. Thanks!

As far as breathing, trigger squeeze, sight picture, etc. I know its been 7 years since I was in the Marines and fitted a rifle, but I was an expert. I hope its like riding a bike, if not, retrain myself.

 

[fotheringill]

Like riding a bike and something else that comes to mind. As long as you can hold it steady and your finger still works, you are good to go.

 

[200Apples]

.




CZ rifles are an outstanding value because of how they handle and for how accurate they are. I will have another at one point. The one pictured above is a 527 Carbine, 7.62 X 39, laying below my .308 Scout.

As for the .308 Ruger Scout, for your anticipated 500-yd shooting I'd look for the stainless 18" barrel version. I've got the black 16.5" and use it for 100 and 200 yd paper or steel plates plinking. Center hits! every time, using +/- $1-per-rd off-the-shelf Fiocchi, American Eagle or Outback jacketed 164 gr stuff. I use the factory ghost/peep to 100 yds then a Leupold 2.5 X 28 fixed, EER scope on the forward rail to 200. Right now I have the rail removed. The CZ has a set trigger; it's very light in that mode. The Ruger's trigger is a great one right out of the box.

During an upcoming range trip I plan to find the hold-over with the Ruger for 300, 400 and 500 yd targets. If I ever use the RGS for hunting, however, I hope to limit my longest shots to 300.

Good luck! They're cool rifles!

 

[Segm3nt]

@200apples

You're selling me on that picture!

 

[fotheringill]

Don't get moist with anticipation. Unless you can examine the NIB for wood grain, it is a craps shoot with CZ. I have not been blessed with winning the "wood lottery" but have seen rifles that won first prize (without upgrade in price for good wood). In fact, CZ does not offer premium wood. It all depends on which stock Vlad attaches to the barreled action in the Czech Republic.

 

[chicharrones]

The one pictured above is a 527 Carbine, 7.62 X 39, laying below my .308 Scout.

Now that's cheating!

 

[200Apples]

.
lol thanks.

There are guys that can work a bolt rifle very quickly, and with the option of either 3, 5, or 10-rd detachable magazines... what's not to like.

I removed the flash hider and installed a thread protector. That's a Ruger polymer 5-rd mag in the gun in that picture. I have a sling for it, too; an Andy's Leather Rhodesian shooting sling. andysleather.com



Now that I have the rifle zero'd to some of the name-brand ammunition, I've got some Lithuanian ball (mebbe it's 147gr) that I'd like to compare.

Either way, it's a rifle I'd like to become proficient with. It appears to be indestructible, but then again I don't reload .308! lol.

Hahrr.

 

[Segm3nt]

OK I want. Trying not to be impulsive. Gonna look at some other rifles tonight.

 

[chicharrones]

I removed the flash hider and installed a thread protector.

Me too.

I like mine with the open sights, but I had to go with a scope for front sight vision reasons. I tried the scout scope for a while, but so far I like a traditional scope better.

 

[200Apples]

.
chicharrones, you have one of the Cabela's specials? Pretty neat.

Segm3nt... I hear you on the "impulsive"; I HAD to have a Scout, therefore I couldn't wait for my dealer to inventory an 18" stainless... having said that, the overall acquisition of a Ruger Gunsite Scout was not on impulse, it was made after some pondering. Too, as for the 1.5" difference in barrel length with .308, I'm giving up less than 100 fps. I like short-barreled rifles; I'm a carbine-kinda-guy... so why not go short.

 

[Segm3nt]

http://grabagun.com/ruger-gunsite-scout-rh-308-16-1.html

That's what I thinking. Composite stock/stainless steel.