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Looking for old reloading handbooks

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Hummer70, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. Hummer70

    Hummer70 Member

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    The oldest I have is Lyman Handbook # 38. Does anyone have a lower number?

    Specifically I am looking for loads for a 10.4X47R Italian Vetterli. From what I have found out so far it was last loaded by Winchester about 1938 with a jacketed bullet with Ballistite Propellant and that is as far as I can find out.

    I am thinking if anyone has a manual older than WW2 I might find some loads listing different propellant?????.
     
  2. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    gun shows are a good place to find them, i saw may this weekend i wish i had the money to buy them all lol.
     
  3. Laphroaig

    Laphroaig Member

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    There is nothing for that cartridge in my Ideal #30 (1931) or Belding and Mulls from '34 and '41.
     
  4. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm Member

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  5. the Black Spot

    the Black Spot Member

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    Phil Sharpes book may have that.
     
  6. Ken T

    Ken T Member

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    Sharpe's Handloaders Guide probably doesn't have loads either and if it does it will be for a powder that is no longer available.I'll check the book when I get home.There aren't many powders still available that were used in the older manuals.
     
  7. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    The powders you will find in those old manuals from before 1938 will be obsolete all but a precious few. And the ones that aren't obsolete, by name only, have been reformulated over the years.
    The only powder that I know of that hasn't been reformulated is the second version of Bullseye pistol powder that came out after the turn of the last century according to The History of Laflin and Rand.

    If you find reloading information, it won't do you any good because that powder in that recipe won't be available any more in it's original form.
     
  8. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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  9. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Member

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    I have a lot of Italian friends (in Italy), I will inquire if they can find any info on the reloading recipes of a 10.4x47R Italian Vetterli. This may take a while.
     
    CrankyCraig likes this.
  10. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    "Cartridges of World" may have something in one of the older editions. They have some limited loading data for various cartridges. That is where I found some starting data for 6.5x54 Kurz Mauser that had been discontinued by the ammunition companies a long time ago.
     
  11. ArchAngelCD

    ArchAngelCD Member

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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  12. schnarrgj

    schnarrgj Member

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    In the 12th edition of Cartridges if the World, It has one listing of a 250gr lead bullet, Lyman #429251 with 42gr of IMR4198. I would definately start low and by very cautious in any load. It was a black powder loading originally. Be careful and cautious. It would be prudent to slug the barrel in that the bore diameter seemed to vary.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
  13. the Black Spot

    the Black Spot Member

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    6th edition of cartridges of the world
    10.4x47R
    313 gr bullet - 62 gr Fg for 1345 mv
    250 gr bullet - 27 gr 4198 for 1300 mv
    313 gr bullet - factory load at 1345 mv
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
  14. dh1633pm

    dh1633pm Member

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    Hummer70, I am in Hawaii this week and next. When I get back I will check in with my dad. He collects old reloading manuals and has a good support. Doesn't mean that he has what your wanted, but we will see what we can find. Let me know.
     
    CrankyCraig likes this.
  15. mr wack

    mr wack Member

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    Also the military load was a 313gn bullet ,, 62gns of BP FG,,,, Also speeding along at 1345 fps.
     
  16. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    If you can find them, P.O. Ackley's two volume set, "Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders" has a wealth of information on older cartridges.
     
  17. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    You know there are a few powders still around from 1938, but semi smokeless, which might have been used, is not. I recommend using AA5744 for those old, big cased, black powder cartridges, and, as for powder data, I am of the opinion that you can make some correlations between 45/70 cartridges, AA5744 data, to come up with loads that won't blow up your rifle. I develop loads over a chronograph, and if the velocities are too fast, or too slow, I adjust the charge. That is what i would do with the Vetterli. I would have low confidence in any reloading data from 1938.
     
    boom boom likes this.
  18. reddog81

    reddog81 Member

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    I don't have any experience with that cartridge, but Trail Boss powder would seem like a good option if you aren't interested in using black powder.
     
  19. SamT1

    SamT1 Member

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    Does quickload include it maybe someone has that?
     
  20. Archie

    Archie Member

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    Hummer70; I looked in my copy of Phil Sharpe's book, the 2nd Edition. Not listed.
    Not listed for loading in P. O. Ackley's Handbook of 1959.
    I did find it - as others have - in "Cartridges of the World" (15th Edition). List 62 grains of Black Fg with 313 (unspecified) bullet as the military load. Also shows the 250 grain Lead (unspecified) with 27 grains of IMR 4198 powder. Nothing new.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
    boom boom likes this.
  21. Ken T

    Ken T Member

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    Loads for a trapdoor Springfield could give you a safe starting point for working up loads
     
  22. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I looked in my Sharpe's Handloading, no data. This was not exactly a popular cartridge in the United States.
     
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  23. boom boom
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    boom boom Contributing Member

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    No, it doesn't, I checked my copy.
     
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  24. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    I have used AA 5744 with my Vetterli* loads. I still have all 10 fingers and both eyes!

    In addition to finding the right powder, one of the big challenges is finding a bullet that is long enough to feed from the magazine. If you load something that is too short, you'll get portions of two rounds on the lifter at the same time, and it will tie up the gun (not hard to clear, but will happen every single shot).

    *ETA: Mine is a Swiss Vetterli, not Italian.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
    boom boom likes this.
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