Looking to pick out a first centerfire rifle

[dvdcrr]

For the open sights I would look for an older Rem700 or Savage like from the late 90's. I would look at 243 or 257 Weatherby if you are going to reload. The Vanguard stainless is very nice.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Being an avid hunter and user of 223/556 for deer hunting for many years now, I wanted to add my $.02.

If you choose to hunt with .223 for deer, realize that while easily adequate for hunting coy dog and deer, the bullet selection for either is not the same. While a fast moving, violently expanding ballistic tipped bullet that turns to shrapnel at most velocities is a no-brainer for coyote. However, using that same bullet on a 200 lb deer is likely to give you a wounded deer that you'd be lucky to find.

I use Barnes Vor-Tx 55 gr. copper solid hollow points for deer. It has no core to separate from, retains literally 100% of its weight in most cases when recovered, and has excellent penetration at intermediate distance.

My furthest deer harvest with that round to date was a 180 lb doe shot slightly quartered away at 188 yards on the range finder. One shot, both lungs with complete pass thru. She went about fifteen yards into a clearing and dropped. Done with a Zastava Mini Mauser, Burris Fullfield II and weaver mounts.

Good luck.

 

[Cee Zee]

And forget that Savage Axis suggestion, their trigger is crap.

Hey I suggested it because I didn't know what his budget was and it's a rifle that could be retired from use without a great loss of money. There are reasons to buy an Axis. His stated budget now certainly makes the Axis a poor choice but he didn't list a budget before I made that suggestion.

 

[PJSprog]

I'm a big fan of the .223. However, if deer hunting is to be included as a use for this rifle, you may want to consider a .243 instead. Many states do not allow any .22 caliber for deer. You might check Virginia laws first.

 

[Doc7]

Deer hunting isn't the primary reason and would be a tangential use at best. This won't be my last rifle.

 

[js8588]

Doc,

Go with the CZ 527 Lux. Very accurate open sights, you can scope it, true mini mauser CRF action, and the barrel is long enough to take full advantage of the 223 round's ballistic potential.

 

[Doc7]

I am still narrowing down my rifle options. So far I've settled on .223 and/or 5.56 caliber, and I want 1:9" twist or so, for variety of ammo choices. I want the barrel to be around 20-24" in length.

Here Is my next specific question , for a plinking/paper rifle which will be 90% of the shooting, lets say 30-40 shots a session with 45-60 seconds between shots and 3-5 minutes between groups - would you go bull or standard barrel?

 

[Fremmer]

I think palmetto state armory has the Remington SPS varmint in .223 with a long heavy barrel for about $550; that's a pretty good deal. Check it out!

 

[Doc7]

I have eliminated the mossberg mvp upon discovering that the ar style magazine will limit COAL for reloading.

Has anyone an opinion on the Savage model 25 walking varminter? It is a synthetic stocked accu trigger with heavy 22" barrel with a 1:9" twist and I can get one for 500 bucks. With scope and rings ill be around 800-850.

 

[Texaszach]

Love my 243! No irons or peeps but it is a good all around cartridge for recreation and hunting up to deer sized game

 

[Texaszach]

If it was just a range bolt action yeah I'd go heavy barrel.

 

[anothernewb]

Personally, I'd have to give the nod to .243. The recoils is very manageable. I also think it's better for some of the larger game.
It's also a pretty forgiving cartridge to reload. but .223 does have it's edge in terms of recoil.

I would think that availability is going to be on par. however - .243 was still on the shelves in my area during the last "crisis"

 

[Bartojc]

I just bought a .243 Ruger American for some of the reasons you just mentioned. I don't plan on your round count, but I do plan to reload for it. I wanted it to not cost a lot, I have other "pretty" more expensive rifles. If my daughter or wife ever wanted to hunt with me they could use it without a lot of recoil.

If you plan to hunt with it at all some states do not allow .223 for Deer.

-Jeff

 

[<*(((><]

I was in a similar situation a while back when deciding on a bolt action .223.

I was down to two different rifles:

1. Tikka
2. Mossberg MVP

I went with the Mossberg MVP, and have been pleased with it. The bolt riding over the mag takes some getting used to but I've never had problems with it. It does smooth out over time, but it is never going to be close to the smooth action of the Tikka.

The reason's I narrowed the field down to these two is really due to twist rate, Weatherby, Savage, and Remington all seemed to have 1:10 and slower twist rates. And I want to eventually push the limits on distance with the .223 and will need the heavier grain bullets for such.

Why I chose the Mossberg came down to a really good deal I got for the 24" varmint for $380. I feel it will be a great shooter for me. The reviews online all have pretty good things about performance, and they all will comment on the horendous bolt feel.

 

[GaSwamper]

You just described the 6.8 SPCII to the letter. Low recoil, can be more accurate than most can shoot, ammo available at walmart academy and so forth for 18 to 25 bucks a box and very pleasant to reload, 120 grn sst is excellent on deer and hogs.

 

[AlFarkle]

First off, the platform. I suggest a Remington 700. They are plentiful, and you should be able to find a good supply of excellent condition M700's at decent prices. You said you wanted accuracy and a bolt action would be a very good place to start.

Second, the caliber. My personal suggestions would be for a .243 Winchester, or a .308. Both are very accurate with recoils that aren't intimidating. Also, if you want to get into reloading, brass is never a problem for these. I saw some guys complaining that it was hard to get 7mm-08 brass, so stay away from that one.

A friend of mine got into shooting at my urging, and his first rifle was a Remington 700 ADL in .308. He really got good with it, and was shooting sub-minute groups of 5 at 100 yards. Good luck with your search.

 

[Jason248]

As others have said a .223 would be ideal for you by the looks of it. I have a remington 700 and a ruger American as well as a few ARs and all would be great choices. But if you get an AR be careful because it becomes an addiction

Also the positive of an AR is you can have different uppers in different calibers all sighted in and a quick ( 2 min ) swap out can be made.


You could run a 6.8spc upper for the larger and a .223 for fun / coyote

 

[red rick]

I would also recommend the AR M4 platform for what you are looking to do . It will be cheaper to shoot , you can change the LOP for different size shooters , low recoil and they can be customized easily .

You can not hunt deer in Va. with a .22 caliber rifle and there are many counties that do not allow rifles at all for deer ( shotgun only counties ) . I live and hunt in one . I also use a 20 ga. slug gun sometimes , but mostly a 12 ga. with buckshot and a good choke , that I have patterned .

 

[captain awesome]

To add to the list of 243 suggestions, that was one of the first that popped into my head. Some one else suggested 257 weatherby, I believe this would be a mistake if 308 recoil is to harsh for your needs. I also have to say the 6.8 spc would be a terrific choice. I am quite fond of mine. My wife doesnt like recoil and actually prefers it over the 556/223. This kind of leaves me scratching my head but if there is one thing I have learned it's just go with it when she says she likes something.
I was also going to make another suggestion, if you want easy to reload you might look into straight walled cartridges. The reason I mention this is because you never have to trim brass, and you can use carbide dies and not worry about lubing the brass either. I also feel I should mention from a reloading stand point, if you ever shoot mil surp ammo in the common military calibers (particularly 556/223 and 308/762x51) and want to reload you will have to deal with crimped primer pockets. This is also true if you use range pick up brass. I know your range will be more limited with straight wall making long range much more challenging, but you might consider it. It seems I continuously spend a great deal of time and money trying to streamline the process of reloading bottle neck military calibers, they can be a real PITA compared to straight wall. Just my ideas.

 

[meanmrmustard]

I would also recommend the AR M4 platform for what you are looking to do . It will be cheaper to shoot , you can change the LOP for different size shooters , low recoil and they can be customized easily .

You can not hunt deer in Va. with a .22 caliber rifle and there are many counties that do not allow rifles at all for deer ( shotgun only counties ) . I live and hunt in one . I also use a 20 ga. slug gun sometimes , but mostly a 12 ga. with buckshot and a good choke , that I have patterned .

I guess I never understood why some states prohibit .22 centerfire use for deer, but allow buckshot for that same purpose. Assuming 00 buck is the intended pellet size, how would that be a more desirable projectile? Nine to thirteen .33 caliber round pellets with little energy, expansion or deformation is better than a .22 traveling supersonic with at/over 1,000 ft-lbs of energy inside a hundred yards (good luck with a reliable pattern at that distance with a shotgun) and the projectile is designed to expand? Not to mention the deflection dangers of buckshot. But, the Dept of Natural Resources/Wildlife figures its safer to use! Come on DNR, really?

My state is ack-bassword of yours and gratefully so.

Edit to add: I'm not arguing, just poking fun at the geniuses in charge of affairs of the field. Also, my sig line isn't addressing deer!

 

[B!ngo]

CZ really nails it here. A semi-auto for a newbie can be enjoyable but escapes the 'zen' of rifle shooting. Pausing between each shot and examining your technique - breathing, trigger, windage - is a very fulfilling thing. At least for those who find that enjoyable. As in most hobbies/sports in my past that require learning and technique (flying, sailing, karting and racing) starting slow and simple is the best way to learn and provides a lifetime of enjoyment that often is just not realized when you move up to big and fast.
So a single shot or mag-fed bolt is low cost to buy, low cost to operate, and high value in teaching and learning. You will never get rid of a first rifle of that design.
B

I'd go with the .223 also. And it isn't needed to go for an AR. You can buy a bolt action rifle for less money and IMO it forces you to think about each shot instead of spraying ammo in a hurry. Lots of newbies love the feeling of power they get from ripping off 30 rounds real quick. That runs into money fast. One shot at a time makes more sense because you will have time to think about your last shot and how to avoid the same mistakes. A single shot might be the best choice in fact. A Handi-rifle might be a good choice. H&R might still make them. They're cheap and fairly accurate and durable. Something like a Savage Axis might be a good starting point too. I wouldn't expect it to last forever but it would be a minimal investment for a .223 that may end up sitting in a closet gathering dust.

 

[BHarada]

I have eliminated the mossberg mvp upon discovering that the ar style magazine will limit COAL for reloading.

Doc,
Keep in mind that all magazine fed rifles (internal or box mag) are going to have a COAL limit as to what will fit. So when you load long bullets to over COAL spec for the cartridge you'll be single shot feeding them in.

 

[Cee Zee]

So a single shot or mag-fed bolt is low cost to buy, low cost to operate, and high value in teaching and learning. You will never get rid of a first rifle of that design.

I still have a single shot, bolt action .22 from my youth. I actually learned to shoot rifles with a Marlin 60 but only because we had that first. The Stevens 15-B would have been a better choice even if I loved the semi-auto operation of the Marlin. Luckily I had brothers who complained loudly if I shot up our ammo too quickly. We had to save out pennies to get a box of ammo and shooting it quickly was frowned on. We saved it for the squirrels.

A low powered scope does everything better. I've never had a quality optic let me down. Iron sights have.

I have been let down by scopes. I went to a men's retreat with my church friends and squirrel hunting was a big part of it. I packed my old Marlin 60 in the truck with a lot of camping equipment and somehow the scope got knocked seriously off zero. I was shocked to find out I couldn't hit a thing the evening before the morning we were going hunting not to mention being embarrassed as heck. I'm not used to missing and I missed badly not realizing my scope was off zero. People no doubt thought I couldn't shoot at all. It's also hard to pick up fast moving animals with some scopes (not all). I mainly just think that everyone should learn to shoot with irons though. I think every rifle should have them but there's not much I can do about that. Scopes just aren't as durable as irons and yes I know irons can get knocked off line too. It just doesn't happen as often. Then there's the sun shining in the scope, things that are too close to shoot with a scope (happened on the same trip to me actually), and fogged up scopes that are taken from a cool air conditioned environment to a hot humid day. It can take almost half an hour to be able to see through a scope if it gets fogged up like that.

I certainly have scoped rifles and they have their uses. But I hunt with irons if I can unless I will have controlled conditions. And finally the weight of a good scope can mess up the balance on some rifles. That isn't true of all rifles and clearly some rifles were never meant to use irons (most of them it seems these days) because the comb is too high. But I like having rifles with iron sights when I need them. And again, I think everyone should at least know how to shoot with irons and if a person learns completely with scopes then that's all they will know how to do. Again I have plenty of scoped rifles but I have some with irons too. I even have some with both.

 

[bflee]

Bolt action 223 in Remington 700 or Savage. Dont let anyone tell you the 223 cant kill deer. I have done it many times over the years up to 300 yards. Accuracy is the key. If you hit them in the head they dont run.

 

[cdb1]

I more votes for .223 than .243. I don't own a .223 in a bolt action but own two AR's. I wouldn't have an AR as a first centerfire rifle but that is just me. I do have a Vanguard S2 in .243 and my daughter has a Vanguard S2 Youth .243. They are very heavy rifles which really helps ameliorate recoil and Weatherby knows how to design a good stock to reduce felt recoil. That would be my choice, the .243. My two AR's cost around $800, this was before the panic, and had horrible triggers. The first thing I did was spend $200.00 apiece for Timney's that I dropped in. Now you are at $1,000 before you install a optic. And most AR's I've seen require a riser to mount most optics which is another additional cost. If I were going to be doing most of my shooting at a range(which I don't then I would especially want a better trigger than most AR's come with from the factory. I will admit I am anal about having good triggers. You could buy an Axis, install a new trigger and still have a reasonably priced rifle. But I'm partial to Vanguards, in my opinion the quality is mucher than an Axis.