Loose Arbor On '51 Navy... Advice?

[Across The Pond]

Hi folks.. I noticed that the arbor on my Uberti Navy is a tiny bit loose.. The movement can be felt, but not measured with simple home tools. It's nowhere near as bad as some that I have read about here, but I figure that once this starts, it's a one-way street...

My questions are:

1) should I be concerned?
2) is there anything I can do to correct it at this stage before it gets worse?

Regds, ATP

Additional info: the frame is a 'section 1' part here, so counts as a firearm on my licence. That means that swapping it for a new one is a royal PITA. For this reason, saving my existing frame is kinda important to me!

 

[Manyirons]

Its why we renumber a frame to match your old number.............

 

[bs32]

Loose Arbor

There are many wonderful thread lock solutions / products now on the market under the "Locktite" brand name. Some of them are / can be used to fix studs - both threaded and unthreaded, and bearings etc in metal. If you decide to unscrew it do so carefully with the frame well supported all round, then I'd suggest one of those products- do some research on the web like "google" and see what particular product will work best.

bs32

 

[sjohns]

I agree that you might want to simply try a little locktite.

If you read the other discussion about cylinder pin maintenance, then you know that I was the one asking all the questions there. I am no expert of course. I think that for a slight adjustment and tightening that a sturdy red or purple locktite will work.

Still you will need to drill out and/or otherwise remove the key pin from the upper groove in the base pin/arbor. ( I just didn't want you to to get an incomplete picture) The keypin used is simply a barrel pin. You can get these for 2.00 plus postage from VTI.

I assume that you are dealing with a steel frame?

Once you get the base pin out, you may want to simply chase tha threads with a 5/16 x 18 tap and use the corresponding die on the pin **carefully**... I say that because the pin itself is problematic because of the keyway groove on top.

It was my experience that cleaning up the threads in this manner took 1/2 of the slop out.

I think that with mine, I will still use silver solder as originally planned. But I have been thinking that since I have the pin out and also have a 44 breech for a Richards Mason, that I might grind off the the cylinder ring seat and convert this one. dunno yet.

 

[ribbonstone]

That last is the best way to fix it.

Are other ways, less than "best".

First, getting the pin out can be a major undertaking...that key pin removal can be a pain. If you do this, may think about using a small diameter allen head set screw as your new locking pin...if it ever comes up again, will be glad you did.

Have fixed older guns (brass framed and steel) by getting the center pin out, cleaning up the pin and the threads in the frame, then tinning both, screwing it back in, making a jig to align it, then heating and letting the low temp silver soldier flow. In fact, prefer to do this to brass framed guns as the better fix.


Not sure stud and bearing locktite wouldn't work just as well.

 

[sjohns]

and letting the low temp silver soldier flow

Does the low temp (@450) work well? I was considering using the next step up. (1000 -1200)

Across the Pond:

I used a 3/32 drill bit on the key pin. It was a perfect match, and slightly undersized. I used a screw to grab it a little and pull it partway out. It slipped out easy after that.

 

[ribbonstone]

Worked well on the ones I've done. Were pretty well beat to snot examples, rattly and abused by blank-firing civil war buffs that tended to pound the wedge pin like a circus tent stake but never let any other loosness bother them a bit (*usually missing a grip screw or two as they just plain never tightened them).

IF the temperature of the soldeir is low enoguh, won't ruin case clolors, but the steel framed ones were prtty well worn and rusted by the time thy passed my bnech, so it's difficult to tell if the colors would be dulled.

That center shaft is the only thing holding a Colt together...it all rides on that center pin. Have it come loose, and you could be hanging onto a frame with the barrel/cylinder still wedged to the center pin, but laying someplace near your feet.

 

[sjohns]

hahaha...

That's what I was thinking. I'm not too worried about the colors that much. I figured that if I used higher temp solder then I would keep the majority of the piece (frame with pin and barrel attached with wedge to keep everything aligned) in a bucket of water attached by clamps. Then I would douse the hot area in oil after I get the paste to flow. I think that sounds like a plan.

Also I have to use a cutting torch, or at least oxy/acetyl to get the temp I need.

But if the lower temp stuff would keep it together for years then I'd rather do that. But a jeweler I talked to thought that higher temp stuff would hold like king kong.

 

[ribbonstone]

Hige temp. stuff holds almost as well as welding....maybe more than you need and I heistate to heat the frame to that level. Not so much for the softening (the frames ae already pretty darned soft) but any kind of frame tempering/hardening should be done under more controled conditons. Besides, high heat tends to warp hollow.intrecately shaped bits of steel.

Do get it alingned correctly before making it solid...not just that the slots have to line up correctly for the wedge, but the boe line has to be in line as well.

-------

Thinking it over...if I had to do that job today, would proably try the permanent type of lock-tite first. IF that didn't work out sometime down the line, would then consider the more permanent solution.

 

[gmatov]

Before you try any of the suggestions, how about you tighten the arbor, check to see if it is perpendicular to the frame, tap home the dowel pin, and see if that cures it.

The dowel could have become loose, but still no wear or stretching of the threads, simply allows a couple thou turn of the arbor. Seat it, if that cures the problem, use a flat bottom drift to upset just enough metal to hold it secure.

Cheers,

George

 

[mothernatureson]

1851 arbor

You fellas are going to way too much trouble. Using an approprate size punch, give a couple of taps with small hammer. If you need to , peen the metal around the pin. I've done that once on my navy, still going strong after 15 years of shooting it. Just my two cents.

mothernatureson

 

[Across The Pond]

Strange you should suggest that........

George/Mothernatureson - I did that very thing today. I gently tapped the pin back in (when I looked up close I could see it was proud of the back face of the arbor in the hammer cut), then peened (using an old, blunt ended automatic centre punch - with due apologies to all 'proper' gunsmiths.. ) round the pin to hold it in place.

I am sure that this may have a limited life and that the more 'engineering' approaches might be needed in time. Then again, I only shoot light loads and can always tap it tight again in time.

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions and advice - the folks here and their preparedness to share knowledge and experience are fantastic.

ATP

 

[sjohns]

Cool,
It will probably last a lot longer than you think.