Loose Winchester primers

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JackSprat

JackSprat

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I recently ran out of CCI large rifle primers,but I have several hundred Winchester ,so I have been using them,and they fit so loose that I can push them in with my finger easily.I have shot some,and not had any leaks,but I am a little concerned..Do the primers expand to create a tight seal when fired,or have I just been lucky with the ones I have shot?.These primers fit loose in once fired brass of several different brands,and I never had this issue with the CCI,so I am sure it's the primers rather than the brass..I hate to waste the Winchester primers if it's not warrented,but I will if it can be a safety issue...What is your opinion on this issue?......Thanks
 
All mfg have recall from time to times. I have had one large batch that was border line bad, LP. I only had problem with one mfg of brass though, RP. The reason they were a problem was the way RP cut there pockets to accept the primer, large radius. Those who bevel the edge using a cutter may one day have problem since they are removing support for the primer vs swaging. Now Win made them good and paid to repair my gun. I still use Win primers today and have no reason to change.

As to why they are loose. All have a tolerance and CCI have been know to me a few 0.0002" over what Win run. My rule with primers if it takes some resistance to seat their good. But if I can just push them out with a hand punch, the pockets are too loose and I scrap the brass. Or save them for a specific brand of primers that will make them tighter. Your right in that the internal pressure makes the primer expand and seal. What you have to be careful with is the primer falling out on its own and jamming your gun up. Not likely with a pistol but can happen with a simi-auto rifle.

It would not hurt to contact Olin on the primers. If there have been others who have run across the problem they may replace them free. They normally do a 2 for 1 on the replacements for your trouble.
 
These are 243 brass I bought from a member on here.They are mostly Winchester followed by Federal with a few Perfecta,and Hornady..I assume they are just once fired from the factory loading ,and they did have the factory crimp marks on the neck..I played around with the odd brass and a few Federals using the CCI primers that were left in my primer,and was so pleased with every thing that I figured I would go ahead and load the rest,and as soon as I started priming with the Winchesters I noticed I felt no resistance on my handle,but I didn't worry much because the press has a long handle..I shot some,and got fine accuracy,and primers looked good,so the other day I was loading some more,and I got the idea to see if I could push one in with my finger,and it went right in..I have some brand new 308 brass that I will try one in nest time I'm out at the farm,and see if it primes loose..These brass were a pain to size especially the last quarter inch,but I didn't give it to much thought at the time,and none got stuck..They guy I bought them from didn't represent them as once fired,but I think they are,but I may be wrong.
 
JackSprat said:
These are 243 brass I bought from a member on here.They are mostly Winchester followed by Federal with a few Perfecta,and Hornady..I assume they are just once fired from the factory loading ,and they did have the factory crimp marks on the neck..I played around with the odd brass and a few Federals using the CCI primers that were left in my primer,and was so pleased with every thing that I figured I would go ahead and load the rest,and as soon as I started priming with the Winchesters I noticed I felt no resistance on my handle,but I didn't worry much because the press has a long handle..I shot some,and got fine accuracy,and primers looked good,so the other day I was loading some more,and I got the idea to see if I could push one in with my finger,and it went right in..I have some brand new 308 brass that I will try one in nest time I'm out at the farm,and see if it primes loose..These brass were a pain to size especially the last quarter inch,but I didn't give it to much thought at the time,and none got stuck..They guy I bought them from didn't represent them as once fired,but I think they are,but I may be wrong.
Click to expand...
Mine seat fine in mixed brass even after 4+ loads of Max loads, you may have just gotten a bad batch, win is all I've used to date in my .243, my brother's .338, another guy's 25-06 and others, might check those out or try a different batch.
 
I measured a few Winchester large rifle primers .209 - .210 and some CCI BR-2's .210 - .211. I'd call them the same size.
Could be to much pressure as has been mentioned. I did have some 25-06 brass once that would only take 2 or 3 loads, no matter how mild, before the primer pockets got loose. I assumed it was just poor brass, Nosler if I remember correctly.
 
Hey guys !! Have you also checked the "Flash Holes". I use a drill bit in new cases to determine the Flash Hole diameters. I then use the bit to check brass before reloading. Any over sized flash holes increase the pressure on primer retention during the firing cycle. ;)
 
I have used thousands upon thousands of Winchester small pistol, Large pistol and small rifle with no problems what so ever.

I have noticed that CCI and Tula, with SPP anyway, are slightly larger than Winchester. Primer pockets in 9mm that were starting to get a touch loose would be tight with CCI primers.

Russellc
 
Is it doing it with all of the different brands of brass?
Federal is known for having loose primer pockets.

I can prime a batch of brass with a hand primer and tell you which ones are Federal without looking the vast majority of the time.
 
I've got several Fed brass that won't hold a Win primer. No doubt the primer pockets are too loose. Got them in a batch of once fired. They are going to the scrap bin. I had several more that were not so tight but the primer stayed in with a tap. May not get but another regular load out of them and they too are once fired. Have a batch of 20 I bought off the shelf and I've got 6-7 loads through them. Mostly reduced loads using H4895. Only 2-3 regular loads in those and the pockets are getting loose and all I have at the moment is WLPP.

If they fall out with a light tap I scrap them. YMMV
 
I find that the foreign, metric (think Wolf/Tula etc.) brands of primers are generally a bit bigger around and will allow a couple more reloading cycles with almost worn out brass. I would not chance using them in those brass if they are THAT loose though. Hope they work in other brass. FWIW I have never detected that WIN LR/LRM primers were any loser in primer pockets than other domestic brands in any particular brand of rifle brass I have reloaded. Possibly the member uniformed the primer pockets and they are now on the loose side.
 
FROGO207 said:
I find that the foreign, metric (think Wolf/Tula etc.) brands of primers are generally a bit bigger around and will allow a couple more reloading cycles with almost worn out brass. I would not chance using them in those brass if they are THAT loose though. Hope they work in other brass. FWIW I have never detected that WIN LR/LRM primers were any loser in primer pockets than other domestic brands in any particular brand of rifle brass I have reloaded. Possibly the member uniformed the primer pockets and they are now on the loose side.
Click to expand...
I've hear the same about wolf and Tula primers. S&B seem a little larger in the SPP. I have some LPP I have yet to load see how they go.
 
I had that experience with Winchester Large Rifle primers working with once fired Winchester .270 brass. The CCI's 200's fit real good but the Winchesters almost could be pressed in using my unaided thumb. Temporarily being unable to mic or measure the Winchester primers I used the Winchester primers to fire form .280 Rem cases,. I did see some signs of gas leakage around some primers even though the load was a minimal pressure load to fire form brass using pistol powder and cream of wheat (COW). I would not use these Winchester primers in regular .270 or .280 loads at pressures close to 60,000 psi.
 
I have been doing a little internet research,and a lot of folks evidentaly tap them slightly tilted on a hard flat surface and if the primer wont back out they shoot them one last time..I would at least like to shoot the ones I have loaded,and it is a bolt action Savage,so I don't mind taking a little gamble on the bolt face,but not on safety..My understanding is that it should be safe,but I may be wrong..I have them loaded with 42.gr H-Hybrid 100V and max load is 43.7 .I have had no extraction issues,or really flat primers...I am wondering if you folks think they would be alright to shoot if they pass the "Tapping them on a hard flat surface test"
 
I would shoot them one last time if the primer will stay in on it's own. I would also use my normal load knowing the pressure is going to make it seal off. Then confirm that the primers are not leaking. Now if the primers fall out on there own after firing you have reached a limit in which I would not shoot them.
 
Blue68f100 said:
I would shoot them one last time if the primer will stay in on it's own. I would also use my normal load knowing the pressure is going to make it seal off. Then confirm that the primers are not leaking. Now if the primers fall out on there own after firing you have reached a limit in which I would not shoot them.
Click to expand...
Thank you..I will be looking at each after I shoot them,and quit if I notice them leaking..I am planning on shooting some tomorrow..
 
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