Lord of War - Ammunition Manufacturer?

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brighamr

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After watching Lord of War for the 50th time, I realized something. I was born to manufacture ammunition :)

Does anyone have some insight as to what it takes to become a manufacturer in US? I'm not trying to make a company to make money, that's taken care of. What i want to do is make high quality ammo, and sell it as cheap as possible. This way anyone in America can just buy the gun they want and not worry about ammo prices fluctuating (.308, .45, .50BMG, etc)

It's just a theory right now, but i've started two other businesses and have experience in that sector. What I'm looking for are the requirements (example: to become a gun importer, you have to spend 5k on permits, etc before you can start the business) Also, any recommendations as for mass ammunition production machines would be appreciated.

If it makes a difference, i'm planning to start it in Montana.

TIA for your help!
 
You can call other ammunition companies and ask them. They will know a lot about the plants and such. I know it sounds weird to call another ammunition plant and ask them but lots of companies will help others get started with info. Tell them what type of plant you want to be, if they are selling to a different market they wont mind you coming in.


In my line of work we do this all the time, if we dont know/want to find out more, we just ask a company already in business about the basics.

Most people are very helpful.
 
mindwip - thanks for the advice. I was planning on asking winchester, remington, etc. but i didn't want to come across as "can I use your technology to cut into your profits?" :D

I'll do as suggested. Anyone suspect the NRA might want to help start a company like this?
 
Funny you mention this.

Back in middle school, we had a "What do you want to do when you grow up" lesson and I wanted to be a gun smith. So I spent some time in the library to find out.

Before you invest in the business, and it sounds that you're business savy, I'd look into any certain type of trade tech courses to at least get a license or certification to start your business off.

Perhaps, I'll be going back to school in the near future for my gunsmithing career.

Good luck.
 
The SHOT Show is put on by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, they might be able to provide some contacts in the ammunition and ammunition equipment business.
 
Interesting business idea, though I am not sure it is worth the effort. I doubt this is something you could do out of you basement. You will need to rent or buy a production building, and have all kinds of safety equipment, and meet OSHA requirements. You will need to cut through Federal BATF, and State, and even local red tape so it will probably going to be a major hassle to get the business off the ground. Worth looking it to, but be prepared for major FLAK from every direction. Calling the NRA for info is a good step another idea is calling a small ammo manufactures such as Double Tap etc.
 
brighamr,

Lots of luck and hope you succeed.:)

Make some hot 9x18 loads. There really are none on the market. You could sell a boat load I think.
 
$30 for 3 years for an FFL 06 license.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/fflc/ffl/ffl_types.htm

The bulk manufacturing machines are 10-20k for single run setups.

You could get a couple of dillons and pay for them fairly shortly.

Do the high end stuff, like 50 bmg (dunno if a dillon would work), 308 match, 223 match, etc. Don't waste your time trying to compete with Wolf.
 
I'm not trying to make a company to make money, that's taken care of. What i want to do is make high quality ammo, and sell it as cheap as possible. This way anyone in America can just buy the gun they want and not worry about ammo prices fluctuating (.308, .45, .50BMG, etc)
Click to expand...
So, you're going to subsidize our ammo purchases? Do you really think you can make and resell ammo for less than what Wal-Mart pays (which in some cases is at or below cost) for WWB or similar? Can you control the commodities market for copper, lead, etc.? I just don't understand what it is you believe you can do.
 
Best of luck. If things get off the ground for you I may very well be one of your customers. It's competition in any market that creates a level playing field for the rest of us consumers.
 
If anyone has checked out HSM (hunting shack ammo), I would bet this is how they got their start.

They have good prices on bulk reloaded ammo, and are one of the few places to get 50 bmg stuff.
 
As has already been mentioned, I doubt that you'd be able to compete for bulk ammo with the usual suspects; but you might find a niche manufacturing obsolete and specialty ammo to keep some of our old warhorses belching smoke!

Best of luck in your enterprise.
 
I think you would be successful filling the niche for C&R calibers and 7.62x39, b/c it seems these are hard to find and expensive lately. And do it in large/bulk. I've grown tired of buying individual boxes of 20 or 50 or whatever. I think bulk of 500-1000 or even 2000 would be great and less waste for everyone.
 
Niche ammo may be a better place to start than trying to undercut Winchester, Remington and Wolf. I believe the owners of Doubletap, Reed Ammo and Buffalo Bore post here so maybe they can provide some insight to being a small ammo manufacturer. Anyways good luck.
 
Not trying to be a dream squasher or anything, but I have thought of this myself and come to the conclusion that it is not as glamorous at second glance.

First there is all the regulations you must be careful to comply with. Then there is the loss of freedom because your location is subject to search at any time by the BATF.

Then you must produce very massive amounts to make a small profit. One lawsuit about someone having your ammo blow up on them (even if they are at fault, your day(days!) in court is costly), and that very small profit margin is gone and you are in the red.
Dumb owner blowing it up with obstructed barrel, putting it in a firearm with minimal barrel support, family of a "victim" shot with your ammo etc, or maybe even a mistake where you really are at fault maybe double charging a single round out of thousands you make. A lawsuit is an eventuality.

Very few people are going to be paying for premium match grade ammo from someone nobody has heard about for at least a few years. So even if you can make a product that could compete with others, that niche market wants quality, not a gamble when they decide to make a purchase and go play with it. As far as regular ammo, you cannot outprice the big competitors in bulk ammunition and make enough profit to cover your expenses to be worth your time. Doing it for yourself can be cheaper, but when you add in the cost of the licenses, the equipment etc, you would be very near the price of others just to break even. How many people are going to buy something they have never heard of if it is no cheaper, has no reputation, and likely not the same level of packaging either?

It would take years before you had a small following. If you want to stick with it that long while keeping licenses up to date good luck. As I said though, with that slim of a profit margin, done just for fun, one lawsuit which is a likely eventuality will quickly cost you more than you will have ever made.
 
So to clear up some confusions, here's my plan:

Start with a 5000sf wharehouse running two lines, one for .50BMG the other for .45ACP. Mid Year, switch them to .308 and .357 Mag. With the two lines I've found, I'll be able to produce about 6 million rounds per caliber per year.

Have the entire business operate out of the wharehouse, so if BATF wants to search it, they can go ahead and waste their time.

I'M NOT IN THIS FOR MONEY!!! Are there any other non-profit ammunition manufacturers?... My whole point is that I have the money to start up ($400k, and more coming in monthly); I also have the resources necessary to secure big financial backing if I need it and I have the freedom to do this full time while keeping my current "employment".

I don't want to undercut, come out ahead, subsidize, or become a billionaire. I want to manufacture quality inexpensive rounds for the calibers that are most sought after\highest price so that anyone can buy those guns without thinking "oh, 45's too expensive, I better get that 9mm" or "South African's dried up, I better sell my LAR" Even if the dems get elected and ban everything, there are 240 million firearms in America, and I think ammo will be in demand for quite a while.

I will admit that I don't control free trade, I don't own the rights to mine copper or lead and I can't subsidize the entire industry in a day, but I could sell the cartridges I make at cost with zero profit... I'm sure all the companies that hiked prices this past year didn't make a dime of profit...

reference: http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/printthread.php?t=57479

I appreciate the help from those who pointed me to the SHOT show organization and a few other directions. For all the nay-sayers, everytime you discourage someone by saying "it's not worth it", or "there's too much legal battles" or "you'd never get that started in x state"-- all you're doing is making it that much easier for the gungrabbers to get rid of us completely.

Hell, even if it turns out that I can't sell much cheaper than everyone else, at least I DID something and TRIED. Have you?
 
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Not to be another wet blanket, but are you just looking to be a reloader or a true manufacturer? If the second, you are talking a true mfg set up including drawing machinery for the brass etc. When I was in Waterbury, CT, the remains of the largest brass drawing factory in the world was there. It was an ammunition mfg facility during WWII. The whole facility was about a half mile square.

If not the above before diving too deep I would check out the cost/ availability of brass, primers, powder, and bullets and do the math very carefully.

Before I forget good luck and I really hope you can do it successfully.

Heck, you might be able to import primered brass from China - now that would have possibilities.
 
More Power to ya!

You might call a guy who started out just like you, Peter Pi of Cor-Bon. He is very nice and would probably give you more free advice (good advice) than you can imagine. Don't limit yourself to just 50 bmg and the ones you mentioned either there are many other calibers that need attention, 10mm for one. Stay away from Remington and Winchester as the folks there who actually know how to do it can't talk and the talking heads they employ to answer questions from the public won't know anything of value to you.

Best of luck and I hope you wind up not only enjoying working at your hobby as I do, but accidentally making a huge success out of it.:D
 
Good luck in your endevor:D

Anyhow, specialty is the way to go, as you won't be competing with teh big boys right away. 50BMG is a good place to start, and as of the current market, so would 308. Do the reman thing at first, even use mil powders and projectiles. Get your name and quality out and about before shifting into new production stuff.
 
You have my full admiration in your ammo endeavor.:)

Hire you some illegals to keep costs down like every other small company around here does.;)
 
No offense to any opinions, but if you want to do some thing all you really have to do is get up and do it. Deciding you can't is the best guarantee you won't.
 
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