Los Angeles Sheriff's election thread: vote for anyone but Bacca

[ElTacoGrande]

Executive summary: If you're in LA County, make sure you vote in June (get registered now), and vote for anyone except Sheriff Baca. Sheriff Baca is the 2nd-worst sheriff in California in terms of CCW. In fact he's probably the #1 worst in terms of corrupt CCW (SF County sheriff doesn't issue, but at least he's fair in not issuing to anyone except judges).

More detail: Two guys running against Sheriff Baca:

Ken Masse: http://kenmasse.com/

and Don Meredith: http://meredithforsheriff.com/

Both of them are better than Sheriff Baca, simply because no one could possibly be worse. Don Meredith has publicly said that he wants to follow the issuance polices of Sheriff Carona in Orange County. To put it briefly, Sheriff Carona is fair, and he does issue permits in a reasonable way. Not quite shall-issue, and there's quite a bit of hassle in the process, but it's very reasonable by California standards. It would be a huge improvement for us. Ken Masse has not taken as clear a stance as Don Meredith, but still, he would be a lot better than Sheriff Baca.

So the short message: It's important to vote, and vote for anyone but Baca.

Why is this so important? LA County is the largest county in the largest state in the US. LA County is full of the people who broadcast our news, make our movies, and generally influence opinions around the US and around the world. If we can win (even to some small degree) the gun culture war in LA County, it will have affects everywhere else in the world. CCW is the most important part of that victory. Sure, we're not going to get a real shall-issue sheriff, but this is a good first step. We're not going to get shall-issue legislation here either, but getting rid of Sheriff Bacca would be a step in the right direction. Right now there are about 1,600 CCWs in LA County. What if that number were 16,000? That creates a constituency for CCW, even in one of the most liberal areas of the country. We need that constituency. That is the kind of building block that we use to start building momentum for a shall-issue law in CA, or other similar reforms.

So, if you're in LA County, register and VOTE, anyone but Sheriff Baca. If you're not in LA, you could still help out in this campaign, or just send a polite email thanking them for their support of CCW.

(Edit: Mods, could this be made sticky? This really is as important as the CCW fight in KS or any other place.)

 

[choochboost]

Meredith doesn't have a hope of winning, Masse's chances are better but still slim.

Here's is what Ken Masse has said about CCW permits:

My policy regarding concealed weapon permits will likely differ from that of the current Sheriff. I am deeply concerned about public safety and I will do everything in my power to make certain that those persons whose lives are in danger and who should have permits to carry concealed weapons will have them. That does not mean that I will be issuing blanket permits to anyone who applies though. That being said, it is my intention to examine this issue closely to ensure that we develop and implement the best policy possible for the long term.

 

[ElTacoGrande]

Whoever you vote for, just make sure you vote, and you don't vote for Baca. Anyone is better. Anyone. If Masse has the best chance of winning, vote for him and let him know that CCW reform is your top priority.

 

[beerslurpy]

That sounds like "I will try not to be such a prick about CCW that gun owners try to vote me out like my predecessor, but dont expect a permit unless you are less than 3 degrees from kevin bacon."

Still, I cant really imagine how anyone could be worse than chewBaca, so definitely vote for the other guy.

 

[ElTacoGrande]

You are correct Senor Cervezaslurpy. It's a very politically wishy-washy statement. Certainly he'll be better than our current crook, Sheriff Baca, but certainly he won't be shall-issue like some of our rural sheriffs are. Oh well, that's the reality here in LA, what can you expect?

Also, imagine if one of these guys running for Sheriff made some strong commitment about shall-issue? There would be headlines in the LA Times, "Joe Bob, candidate for LA County Sheriff, has announced that anyone in Los Angeles will be allowed to carry a concealed pistol if Bob becomes sheriff." Yes here on THR we probalby think that's a good idea but that won't win an election in LA. He needs to say something wishy-washy so when they quote him it will say something that sounds "reasonable" like "Joe Bob will authorize citizens who have a clear need." Ok, that sounds a lot better to the typical voter here. Who knows exaclty what that means in practice, but it will certainly be better than Sheriff Baca.

Sheriff Carona in OC has a policy that can't be called "shall issue" but is actually quite good. You have to give some kind of good reason and need, and it can be stuff that (with some creativity) a lot of people could meet. Sheriff Baca's current policy is you have to either have already been the victim of a serious crime, or you have to be a big big contributor and VIP.

VOTE!

 

[Standing Wolf]

...I will do everything in my power to make certain that those persons whose lives are in danger and who should have permits to carry concealed weapons will have them. That does not mean that I will be issuing blanket permits to anyone who applies though.

Bull Connor would understand.

 

[ElTacoGrande]

Bull Connor would understand.

To fill in some: Senor Lopez is refering to Bull Connor who was an Alabama segregationist. Senor Lopez is suggesting that the squishy language that Masse is using there sounds like a Jim Crow type of policy, where this sheriff is telling us that whites will get permits, blacks won't. Senor Lopez is correct. CA's CCW laws are inherenitly Jim Crow. I hate to say it, but there's a stereotype of county sheriffs being racists, and in California they live up to it.

That does not mean that I will be issuing blanket permits to anyone who applies though.

Yup, sounds like the Jim Crow encryption algorithm. But I'm not a mind reader, so who knows, maybe the good Senor Masse is envisioning arming all the honest citizens of Compton. Could be!

The fearless Jim March has done a bunch of research on CCW and race in CA and the simple conclusion is, it's racist.

Masse would be better at CCW, and the more permits we have out there, the better the whole system will be, but we won't get rid of the racism in the system until we go shall-issue.

It's ironic that the segregated states of the south are now all fair, non-racist shall-issue states and the liberal stronghold of California is still undre Jim Crow.

If I had the money I would (hopefully with help from Jim) fight this in the Mother of all Civil Rights Court Cases and try to bankrupt as many CA sheriffs departments as humanly possible until they start issuing permits to black people.

Alas I don't have time or money for that fight right now.

 

[silverlance]

i agree

the racism isn't in so-called "racial profiling" - which imho can be a legitimate mechanism in a good cop - but rather in the unspoken, subtly reinforced stereotypes, prejudices, and classims of the state and media.

it galls me every time they try to make a big deal out of "racial violence in schools", for instance, when a black kid happens to smack a brown kid - as if there could be no other reason than racism for such an event. but i digress.

the predominant view here in LA is that CCW is only for certain people who:

are responsible = have well-to-do professions
law-abiding = not a member of an ethnicity that is "prone" to violence, or live in such an area with such members

and carry guns that

are safe = cost $1000 and up

only during

times of need = doctors, lawyers, politicians, and movie stars are always in danger because everyone is jealous of them (actually, it's because they know that the income gap is outrageously unfair, is a product of them financially raping the public, and their hearts fear that the masses will one day realize this). You and I aren't in danger... who would POSSIBLY want to hurt US? nah, we're not rich or famous enough to be in danger.

 

[choochboost]

Also, imagine if one of these guys running for Sheriff made some strong commitment about shall-issue? There would be headlines in the LA Times, "Joe Bob, candidate for LA County Sheriff, has announced that anyone in Los Angeles will be allowed to carry a concealed pistol if Bob becomes sheriff." Yes here on THR we probalby think that's a good idea but that won't win an election in LA.

Very true.

I can assure you Ken Masse is no racist.

 

[ElTacoGrande]

Ok, I would like to clarify: I don't know Mr. Masse or anything about him, other than I'm very likely to vote for him. I don't want to imply that he is racist, just that CCW issuance in CA is controlled by sheriffs and it shows clear and strong racial biases. I know that Sheriff Carona in OC issues in a fair (non-racist, non-discriminatory) way, and I hope that a future Sheriff Masse would follow Carona's example on that.

Again, I didn't intend to imply that Masse is racist or will use Jim Crow; it's just that there's so much of it here in CA maybe I'm cynical about things.

 

[Standing Wolf]

To fill in some: Senor Lopez is refering to Bull Connor who was an Alabama segregationist. Senor Lopez is suggesting that the squishy language that Masse is using there sounds like a Jim Crow type of policy, where this sheriff is telling us that whites will get permits, blacks won't. Senor Lopez is correct. CA's CCW laws are inherenitly Jim Crow.

Did I just get promoted?

 

[Jim March]

Masse sounds like he's cloning Orange County sheriff Carona.

IF so, part of the "code words" we should read into that are good: while I believe Carona could do a much better job on CCW, I will give him this: he doesn't do "town discrimination".

If Masse clones that element of Carona's policies, he will be worlds ahead - and the LAPD leadership will suffer mental breakdowns as they have long illegally maintained total control over LA City permits.

I personally would vote for Masse given what he's saying and how similar it is to Carona.

Some ammo:

http://www.equalccw.com/lastory.pdf

 

[Jim March]

As to the racist origins, Clayon turned me on to this key document:

http://www.equalccw.com/sfchronicle1923.pdf

...and I think it was Peter Mancus (I could be wrong) that mentioned the case of People vs. Rappard, in which a portion of the original 1923 CCW law was struck down on the basis of being racist:

http://www.equalccw.com/rappard.txt

(It is impossible to overstate the importance of this case - the court found racist intent in the original law.)

Then there's the latest data:

http://www.equalccw.com/CCWDATA2003.html

...showing massive CCW issuance disparity between "whiter" and "blacker" counties.

 

[Mute]

Jim,

What's your take on Don Meredith? He actually sounds the most pro-gun out of the three.

 

[ElTacoGrande]

His statement was more clear than Masse' statement, but here's the deal:

1. Anyone who makes a statement that isn't wishy-washy is going to lose the election.

2. Anyone at all would be better than Baca. Sarah Brady would be better. Why? Because at least Sarah Brady would be FAIR about it by not giving out permits to anyone.

3. Despite what I said above about Sarah Brady, Masse will take a position closer to Sheriff Carona of OC, and that's a reasonable position, especially given the realities of Los Angeles.

We can't get perfect. That's not on the table. So we should put our effort behind anyone who is most likely to defeat Baca.

 

[choochboost]

Well said.

Masse has the best chance, although he is a clear underdog. He'll need all the votes he can get.

 

[LeoC]

This should be posted at Calguns if it hasn't been already

It'll be a tough battle for both Masse and Meredith... if the CCW issue does come up it'll be easy for Baca's campaign to label a fairer CCW-issuance policy as a public safety hazard:banghead: Baca's got a large Chinese-american vote in the bag for sure... his wife is Chinese and heavily involved with the Chinese community, to which Baca himself often makes appearances

I hope I can get back home in time for the vote! For what it's worth, I need the clarity of conscience that I voted against Baca