Lots of light, low magnification. Opposite of what seems popular in the US

[axxxel]

Hello y'all

As a European hunter, the american brands to me seems to have a completely different view on what is considered essential on an allround riflescope. I have been looking for a scope that has exactly what I want in a scope. Often the features are present in the lineup but seldom all of them in one scope.

The tradition in Europe is that the highest magnification should correspond with the maximum intake of light the scope objective can do. For example a 42mm objective on magnification 6 will present 7millimetres worth of light to the eye. This is on par with the size most pupils can have in low-light conditions. For this reason the objective size on many old-style hunting scopes is a product of the multiplication of pupil size and maximum magnification. From the nicer brands you can also see that the Europeans don't want to go too high on the magnification scale without enlargening the objective.
Example: The scope with the most magnification in Schmidt&Benders lineup of hunting scopes
is 12x. The more common is 10x. The larger 10x scopes have 56mm objectives and the 12x have 50mm objectives. Leupolds sells hunting scopes with fourteen times magnification. For me who rarely shoots at over 100m this is overkill, but I know from reading here and elsewhere that longer shots are more common in the US. During some styles of bird hunting here in scandinavia there is also a high focus on the larger magnification scopes.


In America, where I presume low-light hunting is not as common (perhaps longer shots are), scopes seem to have large magnification and small objectives.

For example I hunt with a Nikon 1.5-6x 42mm Monarch scope. Although My ultimate scope would be a more rugged scope with adjustable-for-bullet drop-turrets I really like this scope. When looking on leupolds webpage the scopes I find that are the most similar to what I would want are the 2-7x33mm hunting scopes or the 1.1-8x24mm scopes. The latter of these is a "tactical" variant, with easily adjustable turrets and a rugged construction.

I cringe at the thought of hunting wild boar at midnight with either of these scopes. I was dissappointed at my scope when It presented a darker image than the 7x50 (guess what number you get if you divide 50 by 7) binocular I had brought with me.

The tip I would give myself after reading the above is "get a scope with more magnification". Well no thank you, I need the lowest magnification possible for when I'm shooting at shorter ranges.

My questions are: What do you think of this difference in opinion on magnification in US vs Europe?

And the most important one: Is there a scope that will beat my cheap nikon as far as light gathering goes and have the other features that it lacks? I.e. ruggedness and target turrets? This scope is sitting on my Norinco m14s with a Bassett mount from Texas. The scope is definitely the weakest link as far as indestructability goes.

Am I and all of the european manufacturers focusing too much on objective size and too little on glass quality? Zeiss/Swarovski/S&B all present some scopes with ultra-premium glass quality/surface treatments, but they also have large objectives. I think zeiss has a 72mm objective for the wealthy hardcore midnight hunter.

 

[Geckgo]

Not a lot of night hunting where I'm at in the US except for coons. From what I gather most hunting in the US is done during the day. Night hunting is frowned on and illegal in some places because it becomes difficult to identify the target properly. In some places having a light mounted on the gun while hunting is illegal, from what I hear, I can't cite the regulation.

At 100 yards, for taking game, I would say 4x is about all you need (if that) in a scope, and when I go to the store and look at more expensive scopes, this is reflected. I was a little taken back when I bought my first rifle and saw that scope magnification and price were not directly related.

Now that I've settled into shooting a little bit I'm starting to prefer less magnification, and I removed the scope on my 22 to replace it with iron sights. My Nikon Monarch is a 3x9x40. Then tone it down to 3x or 4x for practicing my riflemanship. The 9x just helps me to evaluate different ammo in the rifle, so I think overall that was the best choice for me. If I ever need to push to 200 or 300 yards, I'm sure I will have my scope on full magnification to see the target better, but right now the range I shoot at limits me to 100 yards, so I simply zero the rifle an inch or two high and I'm good from 50-150 yards with no adjustment.

 

[axxxel]

Well then I wasn't that far out guessing that you didn't shoot much at night in the US.

I shot a wild boar the day before yesterday at just around midnight. Before the sun set I thought 6x magnification would be way too much. The bait was less than 50m away and the fov is rather limited on the monarch with 6x magnification. When the animals showed up 6x seemed too little and the 42mm objective had to fight to do the job - but it did.

As I said, there was a noticable but not gigantic difference between the 6x42mm scope and the 7x50mm binoculars.

Oh and I agree, it can be really difficult to get a good shot that late and I was sitting in the little hunting hut aiming at the pigs for at least 20 minutes before I shot, switching between the binoculars and the riflescope. I was trying to identify them so that I wouldn't shoot a sow with cubs and so that I could get a clean shot at my target without wounding another animal.

Eventually, one of them got in front of a bright spot ( a rock I think) and I could place the shot. DRT.

My other scope is a Weaver 3-9x but the 3x is a little too narrow for my taste and I rarely feel that I need the 9x, this is why I moved down. Overall I can relate to the way you think of the magnification because my dad does it that way.

 

[Geckgo]

yup. Hog hunting in southcentral US is tough too, cause you don't want to accidentally shoot a bear. I've noticed that the more I shoot, the less I care for magnification, so maybe less of a "cross the pond" mentality and more of an experience issue. Now days I'm more focused on improving my shooting skills rather then magnifying a target to the point that I can see a fly sitting on it.

You might also look into combat red dots like they put on AR style guns. These tend to be low magnification with very nice glass and more durable. Trijicons are pricy but I think the money would be invested in the types of things that you are looking for. Same with some of the bushnells and other pricier scopes.

6x would be too much for me at the moment. I decided a while back that my hunting range for skill level should be 200m maximum, and the only targets I will ever see beyond that will probably be sillouettes, so as long as I hit them and hear the little clink from the metal I'm good. I'm not trying to be a target shooter anymore and my focus has shifted to staying on targets that are likely to come up, IE 6" window on deer, or smaller varmants, like rabbit and squirrel heads at closer range.

I think you will find a lot of the more experienced shooters in the US want good glass and tough scopes. Daylight hunting though, yea, we don't need big objectives, that's for telescopes

 

[rbernie]

Hunting laws in the US are different than in most parts of Europe, and as an example night hunting is generally not allowed for game animals. This means that light gathering is less important in the US than other optics qualities.

I tend to favor the lower power smaller objective scopes that make for good walkabout/stalking optics; low mounted for good repeatable snap cheekwelds and low power for close-in use in the brush with just enough magnification for the occasional 200+ yard shot.

I have a bunch of Sightron SII 1.5x-6x42 but really do prefer the 1.5x-6x/33 VXIII or even the i.5x-4.5x/33 3200 Elite.

 

[Cluster Bomb]

Here in Maine it is Illegal to hunt after nightfall and req to be outa the woods when it gets dark. Unless its fox hunting but you are only aloowes to hunt for certian time frame....from when fox dont move =/ to just starting to move.

there are some scopes like my (old to me) BSA which has a battery that gathers light and illuminates the lens to increase target eye light....but i have never tried it....lol its on my 300wby mag being fired only 10x

there are some places in us that require longer range shots. and low zoom scopes can be hard to find, specially a good quality one that starts at 1.5. You could try a 2x or 3x red dot....or just use a rifled 12g shotgun....as the debate goes where i like long range vs short...and if short why not just get a shotgun instead of a rifle.