Finally found myself a nice Springfield '03..... serial number is 657XXX (1917). The gun has been fired quite a bit...... and the fact that it's 90 years old and hasn't blown up yet is probably fairly good evidence that it's not brittle. But I'd like a library of good mid range to low power loads for it. What are your favorites ? I've heard that 10gr of Unique with a 110gr bullet is useful. But I'd like to hear some others.....
Low pressure loads for 30-06
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PotatoJudge
Member
I've used 15 grains of Unique and a 110 grain bullet or 3.5 grains of Bullseye and a buckshot ball. The later has less kick than a 22 and the Unique load kicks a bit more than a 22, though not much at all. It's the only way my wife will shoot my 30-06 and is a good way to work out a flinch.
2400 is supposed to be the go-to powder for this sort of thing but I haven't used it.
2400 is supposed to be the go-to powder for this sort of thing but I haven't used it.
Jim Watson
Member
SlamFire's load sounds good to me. Lyman says 43 gr IMR 4895 and a 168 SMK is only 35,500 CUP which is on par with the soft SAAMI 8mm that they fear might get into an 1888.
Hatcher said one or more low number '03s were wrecked by the guard cartridge, Bullseye and the 150 gr bullet. The sudden pressure rise of the fast powder was the culprit, not the maximum pressure.
Use good brass. A low number '03 will take standard loads as long as the brass holds up. A blown casehead is a blown up gun.
No doubt somebody will be along shortly to tell you that it will blow you straight to Perdition on the next outing. You have been warned.
Hatcher said one or more low number '03s were wrecked by the guard cartridge, Bullseye and the 150 gr bullet. The sudden pressure rise of the fast powder was the culprit, not the maximum pressure.
Use good brass. A low number '03 will take standard loads as long as the brass holds up. A blown casehead is a blown up gun.
No doubt somebody will be along shortly to tell you that it will blow you straight to Perdition on the next outing. You have been warned.
Thanks all. I agree with you Jim, I think these guns have been rather unfairly treated over the years. The facts simply don't bear out that they're death traps. Has any gun with the Hatcher hole ever blown ? I don't ever intend to shoot full house rounds in a 90 year old gun, but it's sure fun to plink with and play Guadalcanal in the back yard....
Jim, are you suggesting that Unique may be too fast ? I'd like to use 150 gr bullets, and get about 1800 fps. I'd also like to get a subsonic load (1000 fps)... I think slamfire's load will put me over 2000 and I really don't need that.... not planning on deer or commies....just the occasional coyote around the homestead and any coffee can brave enough to show itself near the mound...... can anyone recommend specific grain loads that will get me there ?
Jim, are you suggesting that Unique may be too fast ? I'd like to use 150 gr bullets, and get about 1800 fps. I'd also like to get a subsonic load (1000 fps)... I think slamfire's load will put me over 2000 and I really don't need that.... not planning on deer or commies....just the occasional coyote around the homestead and any coffee can brave enough to show itself near the mound...... can anyone recommend specific grain loads that will get me there ?
this maybe of use; http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/index.php
Jim Watson
Member
A 150 at 1800 is not much trouble. The old Speer No 10 has loads in that realm with SR 4759 which is meant as a light load powder. You could probably work down to similar loads with other powders. Maybe tested in another rifle with more safety margin.
I have no knowhow or experience in subsonic loads with jacketed bullets.
I would use a pistol or shotgun powder like Unique and a cast bullet for that.
I have no knowhow or experience in subsonic loads with jacketed bullets.
I would use a pistol or shotgun powder like Unique and a cast bullet for that.
KaiserBen
Member
I used surplus M160 frangible bullets over 14.4gr Unique for a good low recoil plinking load in my 03A3. They weigh ~108gr, and should be going ~1600fps with this load. Do not crimp if you do this, the bullets are compressed lead dust and plastic and will break at the crimp.
I have just been through this route trying to find my wife a nice low recoiling short range deer load she can use in her M70FW. I'm now using 18gr SR4759 under a 125gr NBT. I can't seem to find the load data from the old speer manual (in fact, I tore the loading room and shop apart looking for the doggone thing as I'm sure I had a #10 version somewhere) so if anyone could post that I'd be appreciative as well.
The above load is soft and accurate. I'm going to try to chrono it tomorrow or next weekend so I can see whether it will be enough for her to hunt with.
Regards,
Bob
The above load is soft and accurate. I'm going to try to chrono it tomorrow or next weekend so I can see whether it will be enough for her to hunt with.
Regards,
Bob
Jim Watson
Member
Looks like about 1700 fps.
How about some H4895 and the Hodgdon Youth Load section for about 2500?
How about some H4895 and the Hodgdon Youth Load section for about 2500?
What's the barrel length?
Looking at 42gn 4895 under a 168gn SMK, QuickLoad gives 31,521 PSI. That should be good for 2375 out of a 24 inch tube.
46 gns of H4895 takes the pressure up to 39,637 PSI with a velocity of approximately 2514 fps.
Looking at 42gn 4895 under a 168gn SMK, QuickLoad gives 31,521 PSI. That should be good for 2375 out of a 24 inch tube.
46 gns of H4895 takes the pressure up to 39,637 PSI with a velocity of approximately 2514 fps.
GunTech, Barrel is 24". The bullets I'm considering are cast 150gr round nose like those sold here:
http://www.huntingtons.com/bullets_leadcast.html
I like the idea of a larger slug of lead going downrange. the 100gr bullets seem like gallery loads to me. I want to drive that bullet at about 1600 to 1800 for coyotes and pests at <100 yds.... I also want a subsonic load for the same slug.... to plink with and not disturb my neighborhood too much.
thanks for the help.
http://www.huntingtons.com/bullets_leadcast.html
I like the idea of a larger slug of lead going downrange. the 100gr bullets seem like gallery loads to me. I want to drive that bullet at about 1600 to 1800 for coyotes and pests at <100 yds.... I also want a subsonic load for the same slug.... to plink with and not disturb my neighborhood too much.
thanks for the help.
MikeG
Member
There is a general purpose mild load for rifles called 'the load'. See Here:
http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html
http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html
Jim,
Thanks for the velocity estimate. I'll let you know the actuals here at this altitude once I shoot them for chrono. I tried the reduced 4895 loads but too much pop for her (cervical disc surgery). Will see how the SR 4759 works as it seems tolerable for her to shoot.
Regards,
Bob
Thanks for the velocity estimate. I'll let you know the actuals here at this altitude once I shoot them for chrono. I tried the reduced 4895 loads but too much pop for her (cervical disc surgery). Will see how the SR 4759 works as it seems tolerable for her to shoot.
Regards,
Bob
Found this article..... Writer is using 30 grains of Triple 7 blackpowder to take care of the case volume problem.... anybody ever tried that ? Would this be a very low pressure round that could be reduced to subsonic levels? I know clean up is more difficult, but the ability to vary the charge without much worry sounds appealing.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_11_50/ai_n6209996/pg_1
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_11_50/ai_n6209996/pg_1
Jim Watson
Member
I think that is just weird.
I have never fooled with 110 gr .30 cal or loads lighter than .30-30 equivalent in .30-06 with jacketed bullets.
I have had decent results with cast .30-06 bullets in the 180 grain range with 12 gr 700X*, 16 to 20 gr 2400, 20 gr 4759, 27 gr H322. I do not know how those are on chamber pressure as manageable by low number 03s.
The only subsonic load I have ever tried was the 165 gr Laser Cast bevel base and 7 gr 700X*. Ptooey. Good accuracy. Their gas check bullet was not nearly as accurate.
*Recommended loads I found were 13 gr Red Dot (Ed Harris' The Load) and 8 gr Unique, respectively. I had 700X on hand, it is a little faster burning so I reduced the loads by a grain. Shot fine in Model 70.
I have never fooled with 110 gr .30 cal or loads lighter than .30-30 equivalent in .30-06 with jacketed bullets.
I have had decent results with cast .30-06 bullets in the 180 grain range with 12 gr 700X*, 16 to 20 gr 2400, 20 gr 4759, 27 gr H322. I do not know how those are on chamber pressure as manageable by low number 03s.
The only subsonic load I have ever tried was the 165 gr Laser Cast bevel base and 7 gr 700X*. Ptooey. Good accuracy. Their gas check bullet was not nearly as accurate.
*Recommended loads I found were 13 gr Red Dot (Ed Harris' The Load) and 8 gr Unique, respectively. I had 700X on hand, it is a little faster burning so I reduced the loads by a grain. Shot fine in Model 70.
Jim,
I'd much prefer not to use triple 7. But I've read other places how a small charge (less than 30% filled case) can result in a serious pressure spike when the charge ignites incorrectly. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to avoid with a potentially crispy '03. Some sources swear it's inevitable... others like this author seem to poo poo the idea.....
http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/lowpower.html
The 10 grains of Unique seems to work fine (using a tuft of polyester).... but is supersonic...... I'm sure the red dot and 4579 loads are also adequate....
but if I try to reduce those loads to sneak up on just subsonic I'm afraid I will cause a pressure spike.... am I worrying for nothing ? Is is physically possible for a little charge of 10 grains of unique to ever blow up a gun that is marginally capable of 30-06 pressures ?
thanks for the help....
I'd much prefer not to use triple 7. But I've read other places how a small charge (less than 30% filled case) can result in a serious pressure spike when the charge ignites incorrectly. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to avoid with a potentially crispy '03. Some sources swear it's inevitable... others like this author seem to poo poo the idea.....
http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/lowpower.html
The 10 grains of Unique seems to work fine (using a tuft of polyester).... but is supersonic...... I'm sure the red dot and 4579 loads are also adequate....
but if I try to reduce those loads to sneak up on just subsonic I'm afraid I will cause a pressure spike.... am I worrying for nothing ? Is is physically possible for a little charge of 10 grains of unique to ever blow up a gun that is marginally capable of 30-06 pressures ?
thanks for the help....
Cledus J. Crabb
Member
I've made up gallery loads for my 03A3 using a 150 grain flatbased bullet over 20 grains of IMR4227. It works very well. 1 1/2 groups at 100 yds. Another friend on mine shot this same load out at 200 and turned in a respectable score with it.
CJC
CJC
fireflyfather
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Just be sure you don't double charge the case. What I've read about this load (I've fired one batch of 20 I cooked up), says that a double charge will overflow the case (13 gr of red dot). Well, I intentionally double charged a 7.62x54R case today, just to see if that was true (didn't seat a bullet, and dumped the powder afterwards!), and guess what? There was still room for another grain or two, at least, maybe more, without overflowing. Now, I could clearly see the powder without shining a light down there, but there was no overflow. I spent almost an hour this afternoon working out a safety procedure to make sure there are no double or non-charged rounds (best check is to shake the cartridge (either cover the hole with a finger, or after you seat a bullet). If it shakes loosely, then it's fine. If it sounds mostly full, you have a problem. If you can't hear the powder, you have a problem.
My manual says the 30-06 has more useful case capacity than the 7.62x54R. That means that it may very well be possible to double charge, so be vigilant.
Maybe I got a really dense batch of red dot, red dot is now produced in a less bulky format, or my scale is WAAAAAAAAY off. Hard to say, but do be careful.
Jim Watson
Member
I doubt but cannot give expert testimony against the "pressure spike from light loads of fast burning powder" theory.
Current Lyman manuals show no subsonic loads but there is a good deal of information in older literature about midrange and gallery loads. The NRA once gave procedures for very light indoor loads with warnings against double charges and sticking bullets but nothing about pressure spikes.
An old Handloader's Digest article about light loads emphasized the Alberts Scheutzenplinker (154 gr swaged dry lubed .30 cal.) It was just subsonic at 7 gr Unique in .30-06.
Current Lyman manuals show no subsonic loads but there is a good deal of information in older literature about midrange and gallery loads. The NRA once gave procedures for very light indoor loads with warnings against double charges and sticking bullets but nothing about pressure spikes.
An old Handloader's Digest article about light loads emphasized the Alberts Scheutzenplinker (154 gr swaged dry lubed .30 cal.) It was just subsonic at 7 gr Unique in .30-06.
GooseGestapo
Member
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- 6,153
I too doubt the "pressure spike" theory, too.
However, I have damaged an '06 with 7.5gr load of Universal under a 175gr FNGC.
Problem was, it was a double charge. After subsequently pulling all the rounds.......... one didn't have any powder,,,,,,,,,, explained the "really loud" one............
I suspect that's really the culprit behind most of the "kabooms", even the previously mentioned '03 in previous post.
I've used a lot of reduced loadings and cast bullets in the '06, and many were very accurate. I've used a lot of Unique in the '06 including the first cast bullets I cast over 12.5gr under a Lee 150gr FNGC in 1975.....
One of my "favorites", was the Lyman 78gr RN for the .32acp. I sized it to .311 for use in a .32acp; and over 5.0gr of Bullseye in the '06 case, it would shoot 1-hole groups at 25yds and shot to POA with the iron sights. (much lower at 100yds however). Be sure to use a neck expanding die for all cast bullet loading.
Just be exceptionally cautious when loading (powder charging) these and similar........... as noted above !!!!!
However, I have damaged an '06 with 7.5gr load of Universal under a 175gr FNGC.
Problem was, it was a double charge. After subsequently pulling all the rounds.......... one didn't have any powder,,,,,,,,,, explained the "really loud" one............
I suspect that's really the culprit behind most of the "kabooms", even the previously mentioned '03 in previous post.
I've used a lot of reduced loadings and cast bullets in the '06, and many were very accurate. I've used a lot of Unique in the '06 including the first cast bullets I cast over 12.5gr under a Lee 150gr FNGC in 1975.....
One of my "favorites", was the Lyman 78gr RN for the .32acp. I sized it to .311 for use in a .32acp; and over 5.0gr of Bullseye in the '06 case, it would shoot 1-hole groups at 25yds and shot to POA with the iron sights. (much lower at 100yds however). Be sure to use a neck expanding die for all cast bullet loading.
Just be exceptionally cautious when loading (powder charging) these and similar........... as noted above !!!!!
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