Lusting for a few AR's!

[Beren]

There is light at the end of the tunnel as far as building my pistol collection - there are only three more pistols I wish to add. However, the light has the curious shape of an AR-15 style rifle...or three. I plan to save money through the summer and place my orders on Sept. 14th, though I might go ahead and purchase stripped lowers within the month. After I make my car payments, etc...

There are multiple threads on this general topic (building your own AR) and I've read through them. I guess I'm just looking for specific guidance and sanity checking.

I'd like to build two rifles: one in 5.56mm, one in 6.8mm SPC. Model 1 Sales has upper kits for both calibers. I feel confident in their 5.56mm kits, but has anyone built from their 6.8mm kits? Would that be a decent purchase or should I save up for one of Barrett's more expensive 6.8mm uppers?

I know where to get directions and tools for assembly. One assembled, I'll pay a gunsmith to give the rifles a safety inspection before firing.

Rifle #1: 5.56mm, 20" floated barrel, A-3 format with fold-down iron sights, flash hider.
Rifle #2: 6.8mm, 16" floated barrel, A-3 fd is, flash hider.

Should I just assemble one lower receiver and share it between the two uppers?

Are the Predator P-series rails worth the money, or are they Mall Ninja extras marketed to snare lustful newbs such as myself? I wouldn't have any immediate need for rails, but surely someday I'd succumb to tactitus and wish to hang a light or something off of them.

What are "gas blocks", and do I need one?

And of course I'll sign up for some training courses. Basic rifle first, then some defensive carbine courses.

 

[ny32182]

Well if it were me, I would go about it like this:

Buy lowers/parts kits now, assemble them, and order stocks and uppers after the ban goes down. That way you save some tax and learn exactly how your gun works.

You will probably want a lower for each upper. Switching out uppers just isn't as much fun, and lowers are cheap.

Also if it were me, I would make that 16" a 5.56 for the time being as well. 6.8 is not available with any sort of consistency yet, and it is yet to be seen if this cartridge will go mainstream or simply fade into the abyss.

A gas block is the block that sits on top of the gas port in the barrel and directs gas into the gas tube. It usually incorporates the standard front sight tower, put they are available in sight free and railed configuration as well. You will definitley need one on each rifle. Buy your uppers fully assembled and tested, and gas blocks will already be installed correctly.

 

[Beren]

I purchased an assembled Bushmaster lower receiver at a local gunshow this weekend. I paid too much: $300 out the door. I found out later I could get a BM lower + stock for that price, but it's done now.

I have an ACE skeleton stock + tubes/springs on order.

I haven't ordered an upper yet - still researching all the options. Good advice re: 5.56, but for some reason 6.8's siren song is calling me.

In the next couple of weeks, I'll order a couple more stripped lowers for $90-$100 ea. and set them aside for future use.

 

[ny32182]

Well... 300 is not great, but not terrible.

Any thoughts on the 5.56 upper?

For the 6.8, you might want to contanct "Zak Smith" (I think) is the local 6.8 expert. He can probably put you in touch with the people who can get you the upper. As for ammo, I think he got a special pre-production run, and may or may not be able to get some for you. I don't remember what he's using for mags at this point. He has a FAQ about it.

 

[Beren]

I'm looking at Model 1 Sales as a source for both uppers, but you're right, and I'll probably shoot a PM over to Zak for advice. I can't seem to find a valid link for his FAQ but I'll keep looking.

I might just go ahead and get a post-ban 5.56mm upper to keep me occupied while I wait for the AWB to sunset. M1S said they'd thread and re-parkerize the barrel for me after the sunset for $50. The wait will also provide more time for 6.8 SPC ammo/mag availability to stabilize. Plus, now I've found out about the 6.5 Grendel and it's making me curious... Dang, I might end up with 4 or 5 uppers.

 

[Beren]

Anyone here use Model1Sales? They state that their barrels are made by Shaw out of 4150 steel.

As my first AR, should I go with the 20" A2 standard, with standard sights? Or should I go with NM sights? I want to use this first rifle as a basic training model to become proficient with basic marksmanship.

 

[ny32182]

You might consider a flat top with removable carry handle. This will look and feel like a normal carry handle for the mostpart, and will give you the flat top option if you ever want it.

 

[Zak Smith]

Someone rang? The FAQ link is in my .sig below. Enjoy.

Here's my take. AR15s are fun, and it's hard to have just one. General advice, in no particular order:

• Don't worry about seeing a standard front sight tower (FST) through your optics. On anything over about 3x, you won't even be able to see much of a "shadow" of it in your optics. But it does look a lot cleaner with a scope when it's folded down.
• A barrel contour thicker than Hbar is a waste.
• An extra lower will only cost about $240-ish, and you won't have to go around switching your uppers on 1 lower all the time. I only see using 1 lower for multiple uppers as a more-convenient strategy when you have 2 pre-ban uppers and only 1 pre-ban lower prior to sunset.
• In the 16" format, a midlength gas system is the way to go in 223/5.56mm. There is less gas pressure so it's more like the reliable rifle-length gas system.
• 6.8SPC will be expensive to shoot for the forseeable future unless you reload. Even once ammo ships, it will still be around $15/20rounds until Black Hills or someone can get enough fired brass to ship "blue box" (remanufactured) ammo. If we assume brass becomes available in August or September (just a guess in the dark), cranking out thousands of rounds on a Dillon 650 will be easy.
• MSTN is a better source for 6.8 uppers than Barrett. I have no experience with Model 1 Sales.

As far as AR-15 assembly, here is a series of pictures I took while assembling one of my uppers:
http://www.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/AR15-upper-assembly-1/

-z

EDIT. Depending on your needs, an 18" or 20" barrel might be a better choice for 6.8SPC. Even though case capacity is limited, an extra 2" or 4" will get you more velocity.

 

[Zak Smith]

Here are some ideas, or you can check out the big picture thread on ARFCOM: The New AR15.com Picture Thread! (Page 1) (28 pages total!)

6.8SPC from MSTN, with magpul stock, TA11 ACOG, Voretx fh, and actual 6.8 mags. The rails on the PRI tube are removable.
[ link to larger image ]

Same rifle, with iron sights and a brake (mag is a dummy):
[ link to larger image ]

A nice little 16" carbine, mid-length has system/handguards, fixed FST, flip-up rear BUIS, Aimpoint on KAC mount. The stock is a shorty for my GF. It would benefit from a F/H and will get one come sunset.
[ link to larger image ]

16" upper with mid-length gas system and Armalite tube, railed gas block, JP BC comp. It was my old 3Gun upper.
[ link to larger image ]

Lightweight 20" upper bsaed on a Gov't profile 20" barrel with FST, the JP freefloat tube (light!), Magpul, LMT fixed rear sight. Even though this rifle is 20", the Gov't profile barrel is really light.
[ link to larger image ]

LMT MRP upper (18"), TA11 ACOG, a really old Eagle Arms stock. I like the Magpul stock way better than this stock.
[ link to larger image ]

16" Eagle Arms carbine, after stock switch:
[ link to larger image ]

Here's a series of pictures detailing lower assembly: http://apollo.demigod.org/~zak/DigiCam/AR15-assembly-1/

 

[Beren]

Zak:

You are not helping my AR lust one bit. Now I want five instead of two or three. Beautiful rifles! Thanks for the advice.

 

[El Rojo]

I highly recommend the Equipment Exchance at AR15.com.

Here is what I got for my PRK legal FAB-10 and CAB-10. Keep in mind these are the upper's only and I had to build my FAB-10 lower with a parts set and get a stock.

Bushmaster 20" A3 fluted heavy barrel with bolt/bolt carrier/charging handle - $425 shipped to my door.

Bushmaster 11.5"/5.5" A2 with b/bc/ch - $325 shipped to my door.

With the bolt/bolt carrier/charging handle, you are going to pay a little more than that for a Model 1 or a M&A. The Rock Rivers are going to be a little more and the Bushmasters are going to run a little more than that. By getting them used off of the Exuipment Exchange, I got Bushmaster's for about the same price as the Mode 1 or M&A wihtout the b/bc/ch. I haven't heard of anyone complain about a Bushmaster.

Be patient and check out the Equipment Exchange. You will find an upper you like before too long and at a price you will be real happy with.

 

[Beren]

Okay, I've had plenty of time to lust and look over my options. This is what I've decided to purchase, but I'd like to solicit a little feedback.

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/uppers/pre-ban/bura3b16sir.asp

$935.

BM is one of the very few vendors I know for certain uses 4150 steel for the barrels, and from what I've read they make a very high quality product overall. I figure that I might as well get a really nice upper for my first, and then after working with it, I'll have something to compare other products against.

I'll need to purchase either a carry handle or a BIUS, too. An ARMS #40 is on my list.

Eventually, I'll mount an Aimpoint.

Legally, I believe I'm allowed to possess a pre-ban upper so long as I do not mate it to a post-ban lower receiver. Is that understanding correct? Should I leave it sealed in its box and/or store it at a seperate, trusted location until the ban expires?

My second rifle will be completely built from scratch. I plan to go through the paperwork to register my third stripped lr as a SBR as soon as I move to an NFA-friendly county. (A couple months.)

Anyone have information or feedback to either reassure this first-time AR guy or to counsel me against making a big mistake?

Thanks!

 

[TheGunDealer]

if you need an AR lower, ive got a bud who bought one of the brand new Bushmaster XM15 lowers for a project, but found he doesnt have the time.

he said he'd take 150.00 for it. its still in the box and bubblewrap.......

 

[TheGunDealer]

by the by, he lives in Oregon

 

[El Rojo]

From everything I have read on THR, if you are in possession of a pre-ban upper and a post ban lower, you are in violation. Wait until the ban is sunset.