Lyman .69 Minie bullet for the .72 Kodiak

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How do you patch a hollow base minie' bullet? If you cover the hollow base, does it negate the unique properties of a minie'? If you don't extend the patch to the include the base, won't you stand a chance of shooting the bullet out of the patch? :confused:
 
I read somewhere that it doesn't matter as long as you tap the minnie at the bottom the powder and patch will conform enough and a small piece of cloth is not going to shield the bullet cavity expansion from 35,000 PSI chamber pressure. What I have to be careful of is that I don't allow the hollow base and cloth to create a significant gap by not paying attention and not tapping down the Minnie (tap-tap-tap) over the load to the proper ram rod depth mark. Why I think I better use stainless steel or solid aluminum.

You have probubly seen this video of the .72 but it illustrates how the shooter had to bang down the .715 ball in the left barrel compared to the right barrel 800 grain conical which slid down slick.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtiJMSS2soA
 
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I realize that this can't replace a .72 Safari Express, but Traditions sells an over/under express double rifle that's a .50 inline with double triggers. Their over under design includes an innovative barrel jack for fine tuning its barrel regulation to produce fine groups beyond 100 yards with saboted bullets.
Magnum Wheel Man posted on TFL how his Russian-made Remington side by side .45-70 double rifle employs a similar barrel jack adjustment method for barrel regulation.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/traditions-express-double-muzzleloader.aspx?a=264847

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4455337&postcount=13
 
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Yeah, I was reading about how the only way you can truly regulate a gun like mine is to unsolder the center rib separating the barrels and temp wedge the barrels for adjustment of the point of aim for the specific bullet weight, powder load and distance desired. So no way can a gun like mine be correctly re-regulated without braking out the torch. But hay look at the photo's of my gun, for the price I paid $850 new in 05 you have to love a gun like this and its beauty and fun to shoot. It just hasn't been fun to load and get on target YET. For me from the elementary solution, regardless of each barrel orientation to one another is that each barrel independently is absolutely strait from breach to muzzle (not curved) so it stands to basic reasoning that each barrel's line of sight will yield independently aimed point accuracy at any yardage regardless of their orientation to one another with independent inline adjustable sights installed. Having said that and for the sake of those with frowns that I would do such a thing, I don't plan to do any cutting until I have exhausted all other possible loads, bullet and distance combination's that might reveal the intended regulation if there was any done at the factory at all, I doubt it.

This is not a gun that is easily resold to buy something similar that works better as are any large caliber and relatively expensive rifle. When I sold my collection off at the gun show everyone wanted the cheapest stuff followed by the hand guns. people just don't like spending more then $400 these days for anything and I cant say I blame them but Im not selling this gun for less then $800 as its in like new condition with all the box content. Besides I consider it Gods will that if it diden't sell I should enjoy it and make it right for for my use not everyone else, even if it means modifying the gun sights radically. Im also trying to avoid re-spending the proceeds from my sold gun collection into this project, trying instead to take the simplest and most cost effective path possible and so far I have gotten some excellent suggestions like the .710 scissor mold for $40. But I appreciate your tip allot and if I sell this gun will defiantly consider your recommendation for an alternative. Thanks!:D
 
You might want to consider going over to nitroexpress.com and reading some of the posts regarding double rifles and regulation. Please don't take this wrong but it is clear that you have a missunderstanding of how double rilfes are regulated. You Kodiak's bores are straight but the centerlines of the bores are not parralel they converge from breech to muzzle to a degree. Pedersolli regulates these for roundball which if I recall correctly for 72cal is about 580gr. The much heavier minies are not going to work well due to the heavier recoil without adding a lot of weight to the gun.
With double rifles the bores are offset right and left from the centerline of the gun. That means when it is fired the left barrel recoils up and left and the right barrel recoils up and right. This happens to a degree before the bullet leaves the barrel. It is all about where the muzzle is pointing when the bullet leaves not when you pulled the trigger. Since the gun is regulated for roundball going to a much heavier projectile without changing the weight of the gun is going to cause the bullet from the left barrel to go way left and from the right barrel to go way right of point of aim.
My suggestion would be to measure your bore then buy a mold .010 under bore diameter and patch with lubed .015 pillow ticking. This should be comfortable to load but you are still going to have to wipe the bore every couple of shots.
I'd start shooting at 25yds and if the shots have crossed that is right barrel gong left of POA and left going right of POA increase the powder charge by 10gr untill they uncross. If the shots are not crossing then decrease the charge. Regulating a muzzleloading roundball rifle is a lot easier than regulating a cartridge double.
As to selling your gun. You got a great price on it and you could list it on Firing Line or Traditional Muzzleloader for what you paid or $100 more and sell it in a heartbeat.
 
No misunderstanding by me that the barrels are NOT parallel to one another and cannot aim with their current regulated center sights without having the magic bullet weight, powder-load, distance formula. I only said the barrels were strait and that strait inline separate sights for each barrel with the gun appropriately positioned to employ those separate sights would result in accurate aiming capability without the regulation formula.

I have serious doubts that the flight of the projectile is affected by gun moment BEFORE the projectile has time to leave the barrel as we use to give demonstrations with modern weapons that this is not the case, subsonic pistols like the .45 model 1911 being a classic example that accurate steady aim and trigger pull regardless how firm the grip i.e. a gun balanced on toothpicks will hit the bulls eye every time as the bullet is long gone before moment occurs. Even if there was some slight affect of setback moment acting on the projectile that affected flight before leaving the barrel, that movement would be consistent to the shooter once sighted and groups would then be consistent. Nevertheless I would bet that using a high speed camera and my Kodiak mounted on sand bags unsupported that you would be extremely hard pressed to see any significant moment before the round left that barrel, unless it was traveling at 900 feet per hour lol. But I understand what your saying but like I said I consider the lack of interest at my gun show table where I offered it in like new condition in its original box with hand tooled leather case, for $700 and it did not sell, a sign from the good Lord to keep it for a while longer and get it to shoot strait.

I have had one mold maker contact me that they in fact have made several bullet molds for the .72 Kodiak double rifle but cannot share or make an identical mold based on privious or recommend data, even if the barrel sheet data to make the mold is identical, because they create every mold from scratch and start over every time. Go figure that one out...Anyway I have allot of trial and error in balls and powder to go thought before I decide to waste $250 on someones idea of an alchemistic "one-of-a-kind" mystery mold. I have decided to order the $36 off-shelf .710 round ball scissors mold recommended since they don't sell those balls. But tomorrow morning Im headed out to check out and join the local range with two cans of 10 year old FFg & FFFg, thirty .715 round balls and twenty-five .69 minnie balls to try and get my double rifle sight-regulated as-is. Also to finally shoot my AR/50 BMG with 46" M2 barrel at 1000 yard targets, instead of the privious point-blank 400 yard target ranges in VA. 8^D
 
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Quote "I have serious doubts that the flight of the projectile is affected by gun moment BEFORE the projectile has time to leave the barrel as we use to give demonstrations with modern weapons that this is not the case, subsonic pistols like the .45 model 1911 being a classic example that accurate steady aim and trigger pull regardless how firm the grip i.e. a gun balanced on toothpicks will hit the bulls eye every time as the bullet is long gone before moment occurs. Even if there was some slight affect of setback moment acting on the projectile that affected flight before leaving the barrel, that movement would be consistent to the shooter once sighted and groups would then be consistent. Nevertheless I would bet that using a high speed camera and my Kodiak mounted on sand bags unsupported that you would be extremely hard pressed to see any significant moment before the round left that barrel, unless it was traveling at 900 feet per hour lol. But I understand what your saying but like I said I consider the lack of interest at my gun show table where I offered it in like new condition in its original box with hand tooled leather case, for $700 and it did not sell, a sign from the good Lord to keep it for a while longer and get it to shoot strait."

I'm sorry! I didn't realize that you allready knew everything there was to know. I'll bet all of the makers of double rifles past and present would be just amazed to know that they have been doing it wrong and for the wrong reasons to boot for all of these years.
I'm also sure that all of the pistol shooters would be amazed to know that any bullet weight they choose to use will shoot to the same sight setting because recoil can not effect the bullet before it leaves the barrel.
Best of luck getting your Kodiak to "shoot straight" I'm glad you've got the Lord on your side because you're going to need some divine intervention.
 
Of course there will be some affect because there is some moment, especially with different loads and bullet wights, im not arguing national match flight characteristics here. Im just saying that with regard to basic marksmanship recoil and barrel lift is not a significant factor except in the shooters mind. In fact a new shooter will actually demonstrate more recoil with a surprise empty weapon "click" at which point the weapon recoils to the ceiling. For the most part when it comes to hitting that target on a sighted weapon there are only 2 rules to remember sights & trigger.

I did not mean to sound disrespectful and I apologize if you feel I came across that way. I will post the results of my attempt to regulate the center sights on my .72 double rifle after tomorrows day at this new 25-1000 yard range. But your right I am asking the good Lord to keep me safe from any catastrophic camber or barrel surprises as a result of my experiment. ;)
 
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You didn't come accross as disrespectful just profoundly wrong. I was trying to get your attention. Why not do as I suggested and go over to www.nitroexpress.com. In particular check out the muzzleloading section there are some excellent posts about the Kodiak 72cal. You might learn that you don't know as much as you think you do.
 
Well of course there is always more to learn about almost everything. But I do feel I have plenty of wood to whittle on at this point. No, Im going to the range at O-dark-thirty to get started armed with what I know so far:). Besides I need to test out these new .69 minnies with patch and their ability to swell and contact the rifling and elongated pointy profile flight, I may not know everything but Im optimistic that Ill know more tomorrow:D.
 
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