Lyman and Hodgdon Data Differ Greatly

[rdtompki]

I'm setting up to load 147gr Bayou Bullets with WSF. I've previously loaded 124gr BB per the Hodgdon data at 1.169" OAL which I understand is the max. SAAMI spec value.

For 147gr.:
Lyman - #2 Alloy, 1.058" OAL, 3.4 to 3.9gr WSF
Hodgdon - Lead CFP, 1.169" OAL, 3.7 to 4.1gr WSF

0.1" seems like a big difference and no doubt accounts for the lower charge in the shorter OAL. I'm not bulleyes shooting, just looking for a softer load for IDPA and steel challenge. The 1.169" chambers fine in both our M&P and our new 9mm 1911s so that's not an issue. Any suggestions as to where best to start?

 

[Blue68f100]

The shorter length is the main difference the charges are that far apart. Load some up and start testing. You will find a min that your guns require without changing springs. Then work from there.

 

[LiveLife]

147gr Bayou Bullets with WSF ... just looking for a softer load for IDPA and steel challenge

I use WSF for full power loads and found if I reduce the powder charge too much, I start to lose consistent powder burn and accuracy.

If you want softer recoil loads with lower powder charges that are still accurate for match shooting, you would need to use faster burn rate powder than WSF.


In this comparison thread, I used 147 gr lead bullet with 3.5 gr W231/HP-38 as my reference load with a recoil rating of (5) and compared other powders - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=748940

W231/HP-38 3.5 gr - 1.14" with mild recoil (5)

Promo 3.1-3.3 gr - 1.44" with light recoil (4)
Promo 3.3-3.5 gr - 1.10" with mild recoil (6)

Bullseye 2.7 gr - 1.46" with very light recoil (3)
Bullseye 2.9 gr - 1.30" with light recoil (4)
Bullseye 3.2 gr - 1.18" with light recoil (4)

Titegroup 3.1 gr - 1.64" with mild recoil (5)
Titegroup 3.3 gr - 1.26" with mild recoil (6)
Titegroup 3.5 gr - 1.04" with moderate recoil (7)

 

[Potatohead]

I see lots of different data between everyone. I quit worrying so much about it, and if it's a source I trust I just go with it. Starting low and working up of course.

Edit to add...I was talking about if I find different charges listed for the same bullet, or a similar bullet, in different data sources.

 

[rdtompki]

Thanks all. And I would love to get my hands on some W231/HP38, but I'm new to reloading and that powder is rare as kryptonite.

 

[Blue68f100]

I use WSF pretty much exclusive for the 9mm. The WSF has more of push and not as snappy as a faster powder like 231. With WSF once you get below a 80% charge it starts getting sooty. Works very well for the upper end. Do a ladder test and see what works for you. With the heavier bullets you should not have any problem with slide operation at the low end.

 

[rdtompki]

The issue I'm having trying to use the Lyman data is that the Bayou bullets are quite long since their truncated cone, not RNFP or similar. Even at only 3.6gr and 1.058" OAL there isn't really the room to insert enough of the bullet without compressing the powder.

I'd sure like a suggestion for a good way to measure the powder height wrt the case lip, but as best I can measure the Lyman data isn't going to work. I don't want to set up for the Hodgdon data until I've got a way to measure the powder height.

 

[Toprudder]

I started out mainly with the Lyman manual. I've since acquired the Lee, Speer and Hornady manuals as well.

The Lee manual pretty much is a repeat of the powder manufacturer data. Useful for a quick glance, but I when I am working up a new load I consult the powder manufacturer's website, just in case anything has been updated. I then compare it to the three manuals I have, and look for correlation among them. If I find data from 3 sources that roughly match, I'll go with that.

Unfortunately, sometimes one source is way different than the others. For instance, look up the data for 45acp JHP, 200gn, Power Pistol in the Lyman manual. It is about 1.0gn lower than the data from the other sources.

The more I get into it, the less I like the Lyman manual. It might be good for someone that uses cast bullets, as they have lots of information for those, but not as useful for FMJ or plated bullets. JMHO. I'm finding the Speer and Hornady manuals more useful, as the TMJ bullet data usually correlates to my chrono results. (I shoot mainly plated).

 

[ljnowell]

In many cases, like the one in the OP the difference is the bullet itself. One will have a different profile that leads it to have a different OAL. They can both be SWC or RN and have such different profiles and bearing surfaces that they will have two different sets of load data.

 

[rdtompki]

I found a thread with a discussion specific to WSF and Bayout 147gr bullets. Seems the 3 folks were somewhere in between Lyman and Hodgdon. I'm starting at 4.0gr and 1.14" OAL. I know the length isn't an issue since I've run 1.169" through both my M&P 9 and the 1911.

 

[bluetopper]

Their data is in the same ballpark....rather typical with different companies doing testing. Look at it as a guide, not a Bible.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Thanks all. And I would love to get my hands on some W231/HP38, but I'm new to reloading and that powder is rare as kryptonite.

Actually --- W231 is more rare than Kryptonite since it's available here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000B6ML7I...e=df0&creative=395133&creativeASIN=B000B6ML7I and W231 is NOT!

As for above and the big difference in OAL, as you know different bullets have the Ojive in different spots so every bullet needs a different seating depth.

 

[murf]

measure the powder height with the tail end of your calipers. you will need a flashlight and some sort of magnifying glass to look down into the case. extend the tail until it touches the top of the powder column. measure in four or five different places and take an average.

this number shows how far down you can seat the bullet without compression.

murf