Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by TEX, Nov 27, 2006.
Thanks - TEX
But the safe thing to do is contact Robert Ray at B'ville and get an official pronouncement, not depending on strangers on the internet.
I would shoot it in SSP till someone at IDPA says different.
that's why with the rulebook change they change revolver division to SSR and ESR and put a limit on barrel length so all those shooting 610s and 625s had to cut their barrels or buy new guns..
I dont think IDPA, or IPSC for that matter, is kissing anyones behind.
They make the rules and companies and shooters have to deal with the changes. I dont think mean to screw any one brand.
I personally think the Glock, XD/HS-2000 and the MP belong in ESP. But thats me.
If you don't mind, can you provide the official reference for that information?
The IDPA rulebook says no single action pistols in SSP.
The ATF says the M&P and the Glock are DA while the XD is single action.
If you want specific ATF or IDPA references, go to their sites.
I seriously doubt IDPA put the M&P in SSP just cause they host the Winter Invitational and some other matches and to snub Springfield.
The XD is right where it belongs.
OK, but a simple "no I can't/won't" would have sufficed.
Taking an M&P apart and forensic examination have not turned up the parts that show it to be trigger cocking, so I wondered what the ATF might have found.
You are the one needing the info. You look it up or call the BATFE. I am not Mr Google.
Thanks for the guidance. I have heard that claim before, but can't get anyone stating it to back up what they say. My instant source for my observations come from actually having the gun in hand and taking it apart.
Add to that, the curious descriptions on the S&W web site.
The only reason anyone would consider the M&P to be DA is because of the taper on the firing pin where it meets the sear. The sear is also tapered a bit. Since the sear only moves down, the firing pin has to go backwards just a bit before firing to clear it. I've looked at my M&P at length, and I'm sure that taper is one of the things that gets reduced to lighten the trigger. Whether that is a good reason to call it DA is beyond me, but from what definitions I've heard used to back it up, it makes sense. I'd still call the IDPA and see where it falls in.
I do a lot of technical analysis of various firearms and systems and am always amused by the number of errors that gunwriters make, and consider them the least reliable source of information.
The gun IS being shot in SSP so they must have convinced IDPA.
I don't know that the ATF classifies action types, you might do better searchng around at the NIJ.
I don't think they classify domestic products, but would certainly like to find out. When I see claims to such, I always check to see if they can back up their claims.
Look how long gun writers called the XD DAO. I have gun magazines where you can see the description evolving.
S&W web site is just as elusive, but their manuals for their pistols are worth a look in what they explain.
Wow, that sounds like the XD. I guess there must be a subtle mechanical difference like FieroCDSP said, or just a marketing / perception thing like Jim Watson said.
I feel bad for the people that care about classing; the rules must drive them insane. Maybe people like FieroCDSP are used to even more ridiculous sanctioning bodies, so IDPA's not so bad.
(No need to turn this into an IDPA rant; I'm just out there to have fun.)
For that matter, although there are no overall placement prizes allowed, we all look at the match results as a whole, and the CDP guns do about as well unless there are a lot of CoFs with the maximum 18 shots required.
Strip it down to revolvers and autos?
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