M1 Cabine and Universal M1?

[Phaetos]

I see m1 carbines at the shows going for around $800+. I was at a gunshop tha tI had never been to the other day and there say an M1 carbine marked as "Universal M1 Carbine" for $450. What is the difference? Two different models or price gouging?

 

[.45Guy]

Universal's are a non GI civilian repro, that most here consider crap. However, they can be made to work. Even the stamped op rod variants. God knows I sank enough into my wife's, but it works.

 

[iamkris]

M1 Carbines were manufactured (actually were manufactured in greater quantities than any other arm in WWII) by several companies, with the most being made by Inland division of GM.

Universal is a post-war clone...quality is dubious (so I've heard) and a bit of hit-or-miss. If it is reliable and accurate and $450 seems worth it to you, buy it.

On the other hand, you can most likely pick up a genuine USGI M1 Carbine from the CMP this summer for around $500.

Some would argue that the $600-1000 that USGI carbines are bringing is price gouging...I'd argue that that is what the market is demanding and thus that is what the price works out to be.

Some people didn't pay attention in economics class.

 

[Trebor]

The problem with Universal carbines is that they made modifications to the orginal GI design to make it easier to manufacture commercially. As a result, GI parts will not always fit and operate in a Universal gun. That means you have to find Universal parts if something breaks. Since the guns are long out of production,that can be a problem.

The biggest problem however, is that Universal carbines are not as safe to fire as USGI guns. When they redesigned the gun Universal modified the bolt design and changed the firing pin protrusion specifications. The GI guns were designed to prevent "out of battery" firing by including a "stop" on the bolt and by having a firing pin protrusion that would not allow the firing pin to contact the primer if the bolt was not fully in battery. On the Universal guns, the longer firing pin protrusion DOES allow the pin to contact the primer even if the bolt is not fully in battery. This can lead to a dangerous "out of battery" discharge.

There can also be problems with insufficient lockup on the lugs. The only way to check for that is to put machinests dye on the lugs and see how much has been scraped away after you put the bolt in battery. The results might just scare you.

In short, stay away from Universals. Some work well, but they are all potential problems waiting to happen.

 

[Phaetos]

Don't sound good to me.

 

[panther22]

$450 for a Universal sounds high to me. I saw two at the last gun show. One was in a synthetic stock for $300, the other was $325.
I lucked out recently and bought a Plainfield. It is also a post war gun. But it seems very well made. It has been trouble free and very accurate.
Check out on-line auctions. The M1 is a fun gun, but for $450 I think you can do better then a Universal.

 

[M2 Carbine]

$450 is way too high for the Universal. I don't think new Kahr Carbines cost much more than that.

$300 is too high but people that don't know better sometimes pay it.

Personally I probably wouldn't pay $75 for one. Like .45Guy said they may be made to work.

 

[oldgold]

$450 is way too high for the Universal.

I bought two this year , one for me with Pro-Point mounted and one for wife with iron sights. Have less than $450 in both !

Goldy

 

[dragnb8]

M1 Carbine

I just recently traded a .303 British Enfield for a Ivers Johnson M1 Carbine. Does any one have any information on this carbine and it's reliablility. I bought a scope mount that replaces the rear sights. The sights were a little loose. I put in the scope mount and was siting in the red dot that I bought for it and the whole thing popped off as I was siting in the rifle. Is there any way to fix or tighten the rear sight slot? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[.45Guy]

J-B Weld might help. Though a better bet may be to replace the rear irons, and use one of those handguard replacement rails.

 

[.45Guy]

Personally I probably wouldn't pay $75 for one. Like .45Guy said they may be made to work.

I don't know about $75, but even the most overpriced shop in town usually has them cheap. I'm half tempted to buy them now that I've had the experience of dinking with Mrs. .45's.

 

[Marshall]

I have an M1 Carbine by Universal. It has been utterly reliable for 38 years now.

 

[DonP]

3 Flavors of Universal

I was looking at a Universal .30 carbine last year, the gun store was asking $325. I learned that there were actually three versions of the Universal produced.

The earlier ones were pretty much GI standard and most, if not all, parts interchanged. The second and third versions went downhill fast, with cheaper stamped parts and none of the GI stuff worked on them.

I wound up buying one of the Auto Ord/Kahr carbines instead, walnut stock for $465 new, with the warranty. It's GI spec and parts interchange, if I wanted to. But I'm not sure why I'd want to put 60 year old parts on a new gun?

Very light and handy to carry and shoot. The wife and girls love it. It shoots fine and more accurate than I thought it would at 200 yards. It's early WWII style; push button safety, no bayo lug on the front clamp, wooden front handguard, flip rear sight for 150 and 300 yards.

I'll probably pick up one of the new Inland Carbines the CMP just got in from Italy too, later this year. They look awful nice.

As for the Universal you mentioned. It sounds pretty high $, no matter which of the three versions it is. The best guess at this point is that the CMP will be asking around $400 to $500 for theirs. That might finally bring down the silly prices carbines have been going for lately.

 

[stinky]

I picked up a problem Universal a couple years ago thinking I could fix it.

wish I had that $200 back...

 

[.45Guy]

Do you still have it? I always liked a challenge I'll pay cost + shipping.