M1 Carbine - bullet not seating

[Greasyfingers]

I'm rather new to this, but recently acquired my dad's 1943 M1 carbine. Someone had mounted the bolt wrong, so using a Youtube video I took the rifle apart and mounted the bolt correctly. First time I tried to load a round, the bullets stuck on the ramp. I polished the ramp with 1000 grit sandpaper (not too much) and it fixed the feed problem. The bullets would seat, so I went and fired one round (too loud), but I figured it worked. Oiled it, and noticed the bullets would no longer seat in the barrel. Checked it, cleaned and oiled it, nothing. I pulled the bolt back and locked it in place, inserting a bullet by hand, the rear sticks out more than an 8th of an inch. so much that if the bolt is placed forward, it won't lock into place. Important point - before when I was playing with the ramp, the bullets seated so tight I had to pry them out with a fingernail. I've checked the chamber, can't see any obstruction. Bought new rounds, same problem. Stuck a toothpick in the chamber til it stopped to compare length to a round..from back end to front rim the rounds (old & new) seem longer than the chamber. Question - what could make the chamber suddenly get shorter? :banghead:

 

[4v50 Gary]

Get the headspace checked.

 

[rcmodel]

I have seen a Ruger Blackhawk .30 Carbine with the same problem.

Turned out, thin brass rings were shearing off the case mouth occasionally and staying stuck in the chamber at the headspace step.

Get a cleaning rod and a new .30 cal bore brush and clean the snot out of the chamber.

Be looking for a thin brass ring stuck on the bore brush when you push it through.

rc

 

[joem1945]

Get a new bore brush. Insert the rod and attach the brush. Chuck the rod in a drill and rotate it while pulling it slowly into the chamber and squirt some Hoppies # 9 in the chamber.

 

[Sunray]

"...Oiled it, and..." Oiled what? Do not leave oil in the chamber and shoot.
I'd suggest it's time for a smithy.
The feed problem is far more likely to be magazine related than anything else. Usually the lips are bent in a tick.
"...the rear sticks out more than an 8th of an inch..." The cartridge is failing to chamber? It's either the ammo which is unlikely(what ammo?) or there is something in the chamber.
Headspace is the distance between the bolt face and where the case mouth sits in the chamber. Since you've had an issue with the bolt getting the headspace checked would not be a bad idea anyway, but I doubt that's the issue. Unless the barrel has some how become loose. Isn't likely either.
Carbine manual is here. Note the need for the provided UN & PW.
http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/

 

[carbine85]

1) Post a few pictures
2) FMJ or soft point bullets?
3) How was the bolt installed incorrectly? That really can't happen.
4) With the information you provided I'm guessing it's the magazine or a week operating rod spring.
Head space is probably not the issue unless the barrel was replaced.

 

[Jim K]

Is the ammo factory or reloads?

Jim

 

[Greasyfingers]

Still stuck

The bolt does not have anything to do with it. The round cannot be inserted by hand and made to seat. I've tried new ammo and even fine sanded the old round with 1000 grit sandpaper. I'll try to take some pictures.

 

[carbine85]

Take around, remove the bullet and powder and use it as a head space gauge. It's the closest you will get without the proper tools.
What's the date and mfg markings on the barrel?

 

[xxmaa]

Either

As RC wrote .Or you got grit from that sand paper in the chamber , find some one , who knows a bullet from a cartridge before you ruin it.

 

[boom boom]

BTW, for safety reasons either use snap caps or dummy rounds when trying to get a rifle that has feeding problems operating.

 

[Greasyfingers]

Pictures

Here's pics of the rifle. Inland (General motors) 11-43. Think the first sentence I posted stated I'm new at this, so I might not use the correct wording. If people are sensitive I'll try to use the correct bullet, round, cartridge, projectile, etc word. You can't push the round in with a finger and a lot of force, and I sure have enough sense not to hammer it in. I definitely know not to try to shoot it as is.

 

[Greasyfingers]

Cleaned it

Cleaned it until I wore the copper brush out, still nothing. Using new Federal rounds and the old 1965 rounds to test, still can't get round to seat with bolt locked back.

 

[amd6547]

Alright, I pulled out my Inland, locked back the bolt, and dropped a round in the chamber...
Looks just like your carbine picture.
When you load your carbine, are you pulling back the bolt and letting it drop, or are you easing it forward?
My carbine works perfectly...just shot it two weeks ago.

 

[boom boom]

My hobby for the last eight years or so has been restoring beatup milsurps so take this advice for what it is worth. If a problem with a firearm exceeded my ability to fix it especially if it addressed a safety issue, I went to a gunsmith. If it was a problem that could be solved by simple means such as cleaning, parts replacement, refinishing, etc. then I did it myself but I studied, read up on it, asked questions, etc. before doing it.

The M1 Carbine is designed to feed from magazine with the momentum of the bolt/recoil spring stripping the cartridge from the magazine and feeding it into the chamber. A lot of rifles due the extractor will not feed by placing a bullet by hand in the chamber such as an unmodified Mauser which uses controlled feeding. If the extractor is not snapping onto the case head, you will see the bolt failing to close.

For bolt actions, pulling by the firing pin from the bolt and sometimes the extractor, you can get by without dummy cartridges/snapcaps to test feeding without risking an accidental discharge or bullet setback. As a practice, not worth it for me in risking an AD but some do it.

Semi-autos, on the other hand, are designed to slam the bolt home with the cartridge in the chamber. Then, depending on the firing pin block efficacy or its existence (many commercial rifles do not have a firing pin block), whether the extractor is problematic, etc. can slam fire a live cartridge while you are trying to get it to feed. If the problem includes not locking the bolt then a slam fire plus a out of battery firing is extremely dangerous and may blow up the rifle. I have seen one such failure and the rifle itself was trashed because of sloppy reloading and an out of spec cartridge (it was Kahr's replica M1 Carbine and brand new). Thus, at the very least, pull your firing pin out of the bolt before trying to mess with live rounds, also place the Carbine in a gunvise or cradle before using live rounds with the muzzle pointed towards something that can stop a rifle bullet. Much better and safer to use a dummy round.

Combine a malfunctioning firearm with live ammunition and the situation becomes more risky by nature. Get rid of part of the risk by not using live ammo as gages or testing function. Snap caps are available everywhere online and dummybullet.com has most rounds available for order as does Brownells or even Amazon/Fleabay.

Sorry about the long post.

 

[Greasyfingers]

Thanks!

I was letting the bolt gently slide forward to test if it locked. Always made sure it wasn't pointing at the 46" TV or the wife/teenager. I'll go outside, point it at our favorite dirt mound, and let the bolt fall normally. If it doesn't lock, I'll remove the rounds and take it to a gunsmith. If the bolt locks, I'll fire it.

 

[Jim K]

Any carbine with no problem and with proper ammo should not need the bolt "slamming" shut to feed. A round should chamber just by pointing the barrel down and dropping the round into the chamber. If it will not do that, then something is wrong, either in the gun or the ammo. I would first try different ammo, preferably GI. If it won't chamber properly, then I think it is gunsmith time.

Jim

 

[Greasyfingers]

Not yet

I'll try it out soon..having problems with a truck now. Will let you know how it goes.

 

[Greasyfingers]

AMD - Boom Boom correct

I finally got around to trying my M1 out after my truck ordeal. Y'all were right, you have to let the bolt slam forward on its own to get it to lock. I tried it out wearing my motorcycle helmet, shield down just in case. It shoots well except it stovepipes every 4th round or so. Think that is an issue with the magazine. For some reason even back in the 60s my father had 3 - 30 round clips and a 10 round clip. I'll try them out when I get time and the weather clears. Thanks again for the advice..

 

[carbine85]

Stove piping an empty round usually isn't the magazine, that's an extraction / ejection issue.

 

[boom boom]

Glad you took safety precautions and can get it to load.

As said above, stovepiping is a classic ejection/extraction problem. My first guess is that you have an old ejector spring that has lost the proper tension to kick the case out of the rifle. The ejector spring and its inset chamber may also be covered with crud such as old cosmolene and other dirt/old grease/etc. If you do not want to disassemble it, at the least, spray solvent such as Gunblast with a tube (NOT WD40) into where the ejector plunger exits the bolt and allow to drain, keep doing so until the draining fluid is clear. Using your finger pressure, try to make sure the ejector goes in an out of the bolt freely. If you disassemble it, make sure that the ejector plunger does not have any burrs (metal sticking up where it shouldn't) or wear. There is a bolt disassembly tool for the M1 Carbine that makes bolt takedown of the ejector pin easier as well. Given that you said someone has reassembled the bolt incorrectly in the past, it is possible that some burrs or eccentric wear might have occurred on the ejector or extractor.

Similarly, you may have a weak extractor spring or it may be coated with junk as above. Repeat the same process. If you have an ultrasonic cleaner, put the whole bolt in it and follow the directions for cleaning it and then reoiling it.
It is also possible that you have a burr or some abnormality on the extractor such as a worn surface where it grips the case (compare your extractor with a picture of a new one if you can find the image). If the extractor bearing surface on the case is worn, it could allow the extracted case to wiggle a bit making extraction more challenging.

If your extractor has burrs, then you should see sharp and shiny marks on your fired brass where the extractor treated it roughly.

Springs are cheap, so do not fear replacing them even if you can get along for a bit longer with the current ones.

Here is a good link with instructions and pictures illustrating a M1 Carbine and disassembly of its constituent parts.
http://candrsenal.com/disassembly-m1-carbine/

Good shooting and keep safe.

 

[ulflyer]

As said above, its most likely the ejector and or ejector spring. I would caution a novice about taking apart the bolt without the proper bolt tool and knowledge about putting it back together. Its a real bitch. Clean it good, maybe soak it overnite before blasting it with brake cleaner or similar product.

I've done dozens of bolts, but only did one before buying a proper tool.

PS: One other thing to check is your recoil spring; it should be at least 10 to 10 1/4 inch long.

If you need any help with the bolt, I can check it out by seeing if if works, or not, in one of my carbines. If not, I can replace the spring if needed. Cost to you will only be shipping and any part I might use. PM if I can help.

 

[boom boom]

FWIW,
I agree that disassembly of plunger type ejectors/extractors for bolts is a pain and having specialty tools helps. A lot of gunsmithing requires three hands without specialty tools.

Flushing the crud out with solvent might help if cosmolene/dirt/dried crud is the problem but not if the springs or the extractor need to be replaced.

M1 Bolt disassembly [email protected]
http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/m1m2carbineboltassemblyto.aspx

[email protected] GI type bolt disassembly tool.
http://www.amazon.com/M-1-Carbine-Bolt-Disassembly-Tool/dp/B0009VT7D6

I also have no doubt fleabay has them from time to time as well.

 

[Greasyfingers]

With looking at your responses I figured NOW I'm using the wrong terminology. I thought stovepiping was when the round stuck straight up (almost) when feeding. Looked it up and found it means an ejection issue. Mine has about every 4th round stick up at a 45 angle when FEEDING. Oops....

 

[ulflyer]

Sounds like a mag problem. Does it do it with all the mags? Some 30 rounders, and some 15 rounders too, were aftermarket mags and not of good quality. What markings are on the mags?