M1 Carbine

[natman]

why does everyone act like these rifles are such poodle shooters? They were in ww2 no? and servicemen used them in combat i.e. paratroopers no?

Is that round the same as a handgun round? I don't mean to be abrupt I'm curious about the gun and am new to the sport.

Two reasons:

1) People misunderstand the intended role of the M1 Carbine and compare it to real battle rifles like the M1 Garand in 30-06.

2) There are many failures to stop reported from combat use with full metal jacket ammo.


The M1 Carbine is best thought of as a magnum pistol with a long barrel and a shoulder stock. Load it with soft or hollow point ammo and keep the distances reasonable and it will work fine for SD.

 

[Casefull]

A family friend jumped in Italy, Normandy, and helped stop the last armored attack on Bastogne, told me that after he jumped with his folding stock carbine, "I would lay my carbine beside the first dead GI I came upon and pick up the GI's M1'. You guys can talk all you want about effectiveness about various calibers but some are effective and others are not so much. I cannot understand the rifle for home defence think anyway. Use a shotgun or handgun. The long barrel, long distance think just does not work when you are in a 15 ft hallway or room. My 2 cents.

 

[rcmodel]

That must be why every SWAT team in the U.S.A. is packing AR-15/M4 Carbines for room entry then.
They just don't work in a 15 ft hallway or room!

rc

 

[Birddog1911]

That must be why every SWAT team in the U.S.A. is packing AR-15/M4 Carbines for room entry then.
They just don't work in a 15 ft hallway or room!

rc

Gotta agree with this. If someone wants a Carbine for HD, it is shorter than an 18" 12 ga., unless you're using a pistol grip, which isn't ideal anyways.

 

[mljdeckard]

^^Exactly. He means, he hasn't been trained in how to use a rifle or carbine indoors.

My carbine extended from the shoulder is just a few inches longer than my stretching a handgun in front of me. It is about the same length as a legal shotgun. Raising or lowering the muzzle to get around corners is no more cumbersome than maneuvering with a handgun. If I have the time to choose, there is no job I would use a handgun for instead of a rifle. The M-1 carbine is as good as it gets for a compromise between stopping power in a gun that can be used indoors, with a size and recoil that my wife can easily handle.

 

[Shane333]

There were some penetration and stopping issues in Korea, where they used very heavy clothing that would reduce the effectiveness. IMO that is a non-issue unless you live in Siberia and are concerned about the recent abominable snowman sightings.

Yes and no; it was designed for the express purpose of being chambered in the M1 Carbine, however it is loaded with slow pistol powder and roughly to magnum pistol specs. (similar to the .357Mag.), additionally the cartridge has been adopted in several pistols (most notably the Blackhawk and Automag III).

Hey Maverick223,

The .30 M1 Carbine never had issues penetrating thick clothing, nor thick and frozen clothing. Not in Korea nor before. If someone told you that, chances are they simply couldn't hit what they were aiming at.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot36.htm

 

[Shane333]

Apparently hollow points are the way to go if a person desires to use the M1 Carbine as a home defense firearm. Effective results while a good way to avoid overpenetration issues.

 

[amd6547]

As much as I like the m1 carbine, my reading of history convinces me that there were problems in Korea. It may have been caused by ammo which spent years moving around the pacific in ships holds and being stored in hot japanese warehouses.
In any case, I had a friend whose father served at the Frozen Chosin, and who later was a Cleveland policeman during the 1960's...he was involved in some of Cleveland's big race riots, which he described as "open war"...he could have used riot shotguns (including semiauto Remington Model 11's), a thompson SMG, or a Winchester 94 30-30...he chose the M1 carbine. He kept his around the house the rest of his life.

 

[mljdeckard]

It could also have a LOT to do with using it at ranges that were towards the limit of its performance. I wouldn't use it past 100 yards.

 

[USSR]

I sell the winter coats that were worn by the North Koreans (the Russians call them telogreika). If anyone feels brave (and stupid), I will sell you one and you can "take one" in the chest to settle this argument once and for all. No refunds to the estate of anyone willing to try this.

Don

 

[Deltaboy1984]

My mother loves her M-1 with HP ammo in 2 30 round mags.

 

[amd6547]

One book I read mentioned a post mortum done on a chinese soldier who took a chestfull of 30 carbine...not only was the quilted parka frozen/wet, but the soldier had a homemade woven vest undernieth that worked like a flak jacket...also had pre-tied tournequets. Add reported drug use and sketchy ammo.
When those US fighting men cleared their hill, they policed up all the weapons but left the carbines.
The book was "Last Stand of Fox Company"

 

[CZguy]

My mother loves her M-1 with HP ammo in 2 30 round mags.

They are perfect for people of smaller stature.

I never had confidence in the 30 round mags. I have complete confidence in the 15 rounders though. Since I'm not planning on criminals attacking in squad strength, it's not an issue.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

My father-in-law became so enamored with the M2 he used for 3 years in Korea he bought a semi version before he came home. In the story I have told elsewhere on this forum, he encountered three Chinese booby trapping a building where a meeting of top brass was to take place. When challenged they attacked him. Two rounds (or bursts)of 30 cal. and one bayonet lunge equaled three dead Chinese and YES they WHERE wearing heavy winter coats.

 

[Maverick223]

Hey Maverick223,

The .30 M1 Carbine never had issues penetrating thick clothing, nor thick and frozen clothing. Not in Korea nor before. If someone told you that, chances are they simply couldn't hit what they were aiming at.

May be the case, but I have heard too many reports to completely refute the evidence, whatever the cause. What I will say is that the .30 M1 Ball will easily penetrate 2ft. of plywood (cut and stacked) and a few water jugs behind. I was pretty impressed.

In my experience HPs will penetrate about 4 jugs and make a large mushroom with some fragmentation, they make great HD rounds IMO. SPs will penetrate about one additional jug, have a larger mushroom, and retain their weight a bit better, thereby making them decent close range bambi rounds IMO.

I never had confidence in the 30 round mags.

FWIW, I have had good service out of the Korean 30s, but find them to retard the balance and handling too much for any serious use. I use 30s or range fun and USGI 15s loaded with SPs for HD and the like. I have a 5rnd mag that is great for hunting, and it is nearly flush with the receiver.

 

[Arcticfox]

When those US fighting men cleared their hill, they policed up all the weapons but left the carbines.
The book was "Last Stand of Fox Company"

+1. In the book, the lesson was, "aim for the head" if you had a carbine.

 

[CZguy]

Just because all threads need photos, here is a 1943 Underwood.

 

[amd6547]

...And here is my CMP Inland. Six digit serial, and I-cut stock:

 

[sarge83]

I have one uncle who was in Korea, first US troops thrown into the fight from occupation duty in Japan. He fought from the Pusan perimeter to the Yalu and all over Korea. He carried an M1 carbine with the thirty round magazines. His was a semi-auto version which he said he modified to fire full auto. He has never complained about the stopping power of the carbine.

My mother in laws, father was in Korea and liked to carry the M1 carbine because of the weight difference, but his LT would always without fail tell any man in the outfit he caught carrying a carbine to get rid of that thing and find you a garand.

I have another uncle who was in WWII in Europe at D-Day, the Hurtgen Forest and in the Battle of the Bulge. He strongly prefers the garand and said the carbine didn't have enough knock down power to suit him.

 

[amd6547]

Well, Audie Murphy was known to use the Garand, and Thompson SMG, but he was well known for preferring the carbine...He was a short guy, and a crack shot. When his carbine stock got broken, he refused a new one, and wired it back together. He is said to have hunted German snipers with his carbine.My own Father was a WWII vet of France and Germany. His main weapons were the various Browning machine guns and the 37mm cannon on his M8 armored car, but he also used the Garand and grease gun. His unit was one of the first to get carbines...he never claimed to have used it in battle, but he never had anything bad to say about them.
The Germans seemed to have liked them...they type-classified them and issued captured carbines.

 

[Golden_006]

Their effective range is 100 yards and they served in 2 wars? Something doesn't add up.

Everyone says they're suitable for self-defense, but would you enter a combat zone with one?

If you had to enter a war zone and you could have either a Ruger Mini or Mauser or a Mosin over m1 carbine which would you take?

 

[jimmyraythomason]

would you enter a combat zone with one?

Thousands of American,Filipino,South Korean and South Vietnamese veterans did.

If you had to enter a war zone and you could have either a Ruger Mini or Mauser or a Mosin over m1 carbine which would you take?

Toss up between a Mini 30 and an M1.

 

[natman]

Their effective range is 100 yards and they served in 2 wars? Something doesn't add up.

Everyone says they're suitable for self-defense, but would you enter a combat zone with one?

If you had to enter a war zone and you could have either a Ruger Mini or Mauser or a Mosin over m1 carbine which would you take?

1) People misunderstand the intended role of the M1 Carbine and compare it to real battle rifles like the M1 Garand in 30-06.

2) There are many failures to stop reported from combat use with full metal jacket ammo.

The M1 Carbine is best thought of as a magnum pistol with a long barrel and a shoulder stock. Load it with soft or hollow point ammo and keep the distances reasonable and it will work fine for SD.

As I said, an M1 Carbine is not comparable to a real battle rifle. The role it was intended to play was as an arm for support troops, cooks, artillerymen and the like. It was a LOT lighter, shorter and handier than an M1 Garand and since it had a stock and a longer sight radius than a pistol troops had a chance to actually hit with it.

If I were going into a battle zone in WW2 I'd take a Garand, thanks. If I was going to spend the war carrying a gun around I probably wasn't going to shoot, I'd take a Carbine.

It doesn't have the velocity nor the bullet weight to be outstandingly effective with FMJ ammo.

However with soft / hollowpoint ammo it is a fine choice for SD. Most SD takes place at a LOT less than 100 yards.

 

[Golden_006]

OK how about in a combat zone and not an FMJ round. I looked it up on Wikipedia and it did get mixed reviews in the 2 wars it was in. it was not just for service troops according to the entry but paratroops as mentioned and guerilla forces -- which liked the wepon for its close quarters accuracy. It says it's range is 300 yards. Not a Garand's range but still . . . It said it had limited penetration potential but like a full auto Thompson not a 22 like reples here insinuate.

 

[NG VI]

Those must have been some fierce gorillas!