M1 Garand Ammo: Is It Going Extinct?
- Thread starter Amadeus
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ocabj
Member
Skipper said:
Randy Marsh agrees that this is America. (Inside joke for you South Park viewers).
Seriously though, eventually the inexpensive M2 30 cal ammunition will dry up.
The CMP Federal Cartridge contract ammunition will probably be the initial primary option, and depending on increased sales of this special ammo, Federal will probably start selling it to mainstream dealers.
I think the adjustable gas nut will become popular for recreational Garand owners.
All the JCG match shooting Garand owners will load their own.
There may also be an increase in .308 rebarrels for Garands after M2 30cal dries up.
Agreed, mil-surp will eventually run out.
CMP has about 40 million rounds of the Greek ammo right now (don't know how much LC), so it should not be an issue soon. But, I have purchased and will continue to purchase some extra cases of the Greek in the spam can -- sorta saving one can out of each case as a 'just in case' supply. Probably will stop when I run out of room.
CMP has about 40 million rounds of the Greek ammo right now (don't know how much LC), so it should not be an issue soon. But, I have purchased and will continue to purchase some extra cases of the Greek in the spam can -- sorta saving one can out of each case as a 'just in case' supply. Probably will stop when I run out of room.
Grumulkin
Member
Garand Ammo
Gentlemen,
The new Hornady reloading manual has a section devoted ENTIRELY to loads for the MI and another section for the M1A. Heavier bullets are fine though I think you'll get your best results with the 150 to 168 grainers. It's the SLOW powders that put too much stress on the action of autoloaders. Thus far, as a CMP participant, I've had no problem getting military surplus ammo on those occasions when I need it.
Gentlemen,
The new Hornady reloading manual has a section devoted ENTIRELY to loads for the MI and another section for the M1A. Heavier bullets are fine though I think you'll get your best results with the 150 to 168 grainers. It's the SLOW powders that put too much stress on the action of autoloaders. Thus far, as a CMP participant, I've had no problem getting military surplus ammo on those occasions when I need it.
ocabj
Member
passur said:
It matters to Garand enthusiasts as milsurp 8mm matters to Mauser enthusiasts as milsurp 7.62x54 matters to Mosin Nagant enthusiasts...
RavenVT100
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I'll be frank here. I'm not a reloader. But I've read a lot of what the literature says about reloading for gas-operated military rifles and I'm honestly very scared to reload for the Garand.
I don't want to destroy my rifle and I don't want to suffer severe injury. Just how hard is it to safely reload for this gun?
I don't want to destroy my rifle and I don't want to suffer severe injury. Just how hard is it to safely reload for this gun?
ocabj
Member
RavenVT100 said:
Not hard at all. Use the right powder and the correct data and you will be fine. There some articles that say it is uber dangerous to reload for gas operated rifles, but ask any service rifle highpower shooter and you'll find that they reload.
RavenVT100
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Hmm, that seems to be the consensus. I think it's sort of like ER docs being anti-gun. They see a lot of gunshot wounds and due to the fact that they come into contact with statistical exceptions of gun ownership they believe guns are more of a threat to society than they actually are. I think that a lot of gunsmiths and service departments of gun companies are somewhat against reloading for a similar reason. They only come into contact with a gun that has shot reloads when something has gone awry.
So......???
Competitions are not always for winning. I shoot in IDPA competitions just to challenge myself. I really don't care who wins. Likewise I would like to shoot in high power using my Garand. It is a good way to enjoy the abilities of the rifle. It's a good way improve my shooting. It's a GREAT way to spend time with other shooters.
Winning is nice but I'd rather compete for the fun of competing against myself. And I'd rather do it with my M1 Garand! Therefore, I will need AMMO!!!
ocabj said:
Yes but you will find they A, know very well every aspect of what they are doing, and B they follow the safety precautions, measure every case, etc... Things far too many casual reloaders do not do even though they all should and would always swear in public that they do.
Reloaded ammo is as safe as any commercial ammo... assuming it's reloaded properly. All too often it isn't quite and semi-autos are less forgiving of this than your typical bolt gun. That being said I have used a lot of reloads in my Mini-14 without issue. Just never the Garand. Heck the CMP stuff is so cheap it's really not worth it yet unless I wanted to target shoot. Thats not the issue here though because as you pointed out they don't typically use surplus ammo for target shooting anyway.
P5 Guy
Member
When the .30'06 runs out rebarrel to 7.62X51 (NATO).
cracked butt
Member
Its not exactly rocket science. A M1 is basicly a bolt action rifle that uses gas to cycle the action. The M1 bolt locks up just like any bolt action rifle with a 60 degree bolt throw. The only issue really unique to the M1 is setting the primers below flush and not using 'soft' primers to avoid slamfires.
Its no different than reloading for a bolt gun. If you screw your sizing die all the way down every time you resize for a bolt gun, you can certainly expect greatly reduced case longevity.
I probably look at my M1 differently than many other people. Surplus ammo is way too expensive for plinking and no where near accurate enough for serious target shooting. Commercial Match ammo is prohibitively expensive, so I make my own. Of course I'm not much of a fan of any surplus ammo in full powered battle rifles- if I have a mauser 98 capable of 1.5 MOA or better with handloads, what's the point of buying surplus ammo that shoots 4moa at best? I'll make an exception for Swiss GP-11 ammo however, its about the only surplus ammo out there that will shoot as good as my handloads and still be cheaper.
We won't run dry around here. Don't need to give details, but it's all about components, components, components.
4895 is THE powder. 47.0 grains of it. 152 grain M2 or 168 grain Sierra Matchkings are THE bullets. Military cases, trimmed to correct length and checked in a case length gauged. Primers seated completely and below case head.
Loading for the M1 is a bit of an initial challenge just like the rifle itself is.
I love it.
4895 is THE powder. 47.0 grains of it. 152 grain M2 or 168 grain Sierra Matchkings are THE bullets. Military cases, trimmed to correct length and checked in a case length gauged. Primers seated completely and below case head.
Loading for the M1 is a bit of an initial challenge just like the rifle itself is.
I love it.
Langenator
Member
I haven't looked too much for .308" sized bullets (I have in 8mm and .311"), but I wonder if more bullet makers would make FMJ rifle bullets if/when the milsurp runs out.
For those of us who reload for quantity moreso than quality.
For those of us who reload for quantity moreso than quality.
I spoke to a representative for PMC ammunition. He says that they manufacture .30-06 ammunition designated as .30 M2 ammo. According to the PMC Rep, this load is built to Garand specs.
Still more expensive than surplus but at least there is a company out there making product for Garand owners.
Still more expensive than surplus but at least there is a company out there making product for Garand owners.
cracked butt
Member
Its still surplus stuff, but its cheap enough to stock up on in large quantities. Here you go: http://gibrass.com/
cracked butt
Member
As long as the cases aren't too long, they will be fine- just use the maximum length listed in a reloading manual and a pair of dial calipers OR use a case length guage.
Military cases are thicker and they are also much cheaper than commercial brass. Commercial brass works just fine. In either type, only fire it 4 or 5 times before pitching the brass and the M1 is very hard on it.
Sunray
Member
"...the original question..." Any commercial ammo will work just fine, but it'll cost you more. I'd stay away from the Hornady Light Magnums though. Despite their claim that it runs at the same pressures as regular ammo. It's too expensive anyway. Reloading makes this whole ammo hunt problem just go away and you'll be using better ammo.
The rifle was designed to use .30 M1 ammo with a 174.5 grain bullet, not 150 grain M2 ammo. 165's seem to give the best accuracy though. 168 grain match bullets work extremely well, but cheap they ain't.
"...do they need to be military cases..." No. Milsurp brass is a bit thicker than commercial, so loads for it needs to be reduced by 10%, but commercial brass can be loaded with no fuss using your manual. Full length resizing every time is required, but other than that loading for an M-1 is the same as loading for anything else.
"...there isn't a single miltary weapon in active use..." Certainly not by any major military force.
The rifle was designed to use .30 M1 ammo with a 174.5 grain bullet, not 150 grain M2 ammo. 165's seem to give the best accuracy though. 168 grain match bullets work extremely well, but cheap they ain't.
"...do they need to be military cases..." No. Milsurp brass is a bit thicker than commercial, so loads for it needs to be reduced by 10%, but commercial brass can be loaded with no fuss using your manual. Full length resizing every time is required, but other than that loading for an M-1 is the same as loading for anything else.
"...there isn't a single miltary weapon in active use..." Certainly not by any major military force.
USSR
Member
TheEgg is correct. Port pressure is critical in an M1 Garand. You just can't use any commercial ammo in a Garand. Geeesh, I tell ya, I've never seen a site with so much BAD and potentially dangerous info on it.
Don
Don
ocabj
Member
Amadeus said:
Unless the ammunition manufacturer is willing to tell the public what powder they put into the cartridges, there's no way to tell if the ammo is Garand safe.
The reason why Garand owners stick with military surplus M2 is because it was specifically made for the Garand. There is currently no .30-06 commercially made ammunition produced explicity for the Garand, EXCEPT the specially contracted Federal ammo sold by the CMP.
ejor
Member
pmc makes one specific load for the garand,I belive blackhills is also making a load for the grarand.
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