Ridgerunner665
Member
She did sorta "ride the bolt" closed...could have been out of battery.
M1 Garand Explosion
- Thread starter mamamia
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DAdams
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Really? Is that a common possibility? Does that normally cause a problem because it doesn't sound like it was a problem until this event. What's up with that?
FlyinBryan
Member
not common at all. there are a couple of features designed into the garand that should make firing out of battery very difficult.
the end of the firing pin has a tang, the hammer end or the pin is shaped like an "L" and this must rotate with the bolt into alignment with a slot in the receiver framework to be allowed to move forward from the hammer strike.
another is that the hammer should not be able to actually reach the firing pin until the bolt has cammed into position.
i think the answer to what happened here lies in the question "what was removed with her left hand while she was holding the bolt/op rod back with her right immediately before the incident."
was it a unfired 7th round? or was it a spent empty case?
if it was the latter i think there was a bullet, the 7th, in the chamber throat
KDS
Member
in any case its a good reminder. Always wear eye protection boys and girls!
AK103K
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Apparently, it was a live round, as they posted this a little while ago....
"The 7th round was a live round. The M1 jammed like it often does. Instead of forcing that round into the chamber, I took it out and slammed the bolt forward. We are thinking the chamber did not close all the way. My brother's M1 will still fire that way."
From watching her let the bolt go, I wouldnt say she rode it all the way down, it looked like it traveled a bit before it closed. Even if it wasnt "closed" it probably would have been mostly closed and I dont think it would have come apart like it would if the bolt was say halfway open.
I think the real clues are, what is "newer" ammo, was it factory ammo or a reload, and what did the recovered piece of brass look like? There was a comment in there that it was new factory, and not reloads or surplus, but its confusing as to who posted it.
I had an M1 slamfire/fire out of battery on me a number of years ago. It was during a match and I was using issue LC ammo. My gun held together, for the most part (back of the receiver was blown off), but was trashed form the incident. The brass recovered from the detonation was only half a case, with the front part gone, which makes me think it went off while the bolt was still mostly "open". I did have a couple of "doubles" during the one rapid fire string just prior to the slow fire string, and when the brass was finally recovered, there were a couple of cases with the necks blown out somewhat, which I think indicates it was firing out of battery, but the bolt was almost locked up when it did.
youch !
I kinda wonder why the 2nd round wouldn't just push out the first. I know they wont and its a VERY dangerous situation but, it would seem easier than exploding the barrel or what not.
Does the 2nd round for a super seal with the tail end of the first ?
I'm going to be very nervous with the yugo 8mm stuff this weekend after watching that.
I kinda wonder why the 2nd round wouldn't just push out the first. I know they wont and its a VERY dangerous situation but, it would seem easier than exploding the barrel or what not.
Does the 2nd round for a super seal with the tail end of the first ?
I'm going to be very nervous with the yugo 8mm stuff this weekend after watching that.
Im glad the injuries werent bad, they could have been.
Old rule applies, if something odd happens (light recoil, off sound, hangfire, no fire ETC.), even if "odd" happens regularly CHECK YOUR GUN. I can understand wanting to just go on with shooting especially if a rifle has a history of jamming, which should have also been looked at an hopefully corrected, but still stop, think, check, continue. You have to remember we ARE playing with things that generate pressures in the tens of thousands of psi. Ive seen a "low" pressure 3kpsi event nearly take some ones hand, please just be safe.
Old rule applies, if something odd happens (light recoil, off sound, hangfire, no fire ETC.), even if "odd" happens regularly CHECK YOUR GUN. I can understand wanting to just go on with shooting especially if a rifle has a history of jamming, which should have also been looked at an hopefully corrected, but still stop, think, check, continue. You have to remember we ARE playing with things that generate pressures in the tens of thousands of psi. Ive seen a "low" pressure 3kpsi event nearly take some ones hand, please just be safe.
Carolina Kalash
Member
Apparently the lady was not permanently hurt, thank goodness.
Do not expect the mechanically challenged to come up with a clear description of what failed. They will come up with explanations, because that is what people do, come up with theories of why things happen.
Does not mean the explanation is right.
You can retract a Garand Bolt about ½” , pull the trigger, and the hammer will fall. However the hammer nose has to engage the bolt cam before the hammer touches the firing pin.
The receiver bridge is a protective device, not 100% fail safe, but it is designed to keep the firing pin retracted during cam down. The firing pin can go fully forward once the bolt is rotated and the firing pin is aligned with the firing pin cut out on the receiver bridge.
Before then, the firing pin can still tap the primer, but the hammer is not pushing it forward.
Back in the day when the M1a was the rifle on the firing line, someone’s trigger job would go, the hammer would follow, and you would hear boom, boom, during rapid fire. The hammer was following the bolt down. I never saw an out of battery incident from a bad trigger job. The receiver bridge worked.
The only out of battery incidents I ever heard (and had!) were from sensitive primers. The bolt was moving forward, and before the bolt closed , just ahead of the receiver bridge, the firing pin tapped a sensitive primer and the cartridge went off before the lugs were engaged.
I think it is more likely that the lady had an overpressure incident.
Do not expect the mechanically challenged to come up with a clear description of what failed. They will come up with explanations, because that is what people do, come up with theories of why things happen.
Does not mean the explanation is right.
You can retract a Garand Bolt about ½” , pull the trigger, and the hammer will fall. However the hammer nose has to engage the bolt cam before the hammer touches the firing pin.
The receiver bridge is a protective device, not 100% fail safe, but it is designed to keep the firing pin retracted during cam down. The firing pin can go fully forward once the bolt is rotated and the firing pin is aligned with the firing pin cut out on the receiver bridge.
Before then, the firing pin can still tap the primer, but the hammer is not pushing it forward.
Back in the day when the M1a was the rifle on the firing line, someone’s trigger job would go, the hammer would follow, and you would hear boom, boom, during rapid fire. The hammer was following the bolt down. I never saw an out of battery incident from a bad trigger job. The receiver bridge worked.
The only out of battery incidents I ever heard (and had!) were from sensitive primers. The bolt was moving forward, and before the bolt closed , just ahead of the receiver bridge, the firing pin tapped a sensitive primer and the cartridge went off before the lugs were engaged.
I think it is more likely that the lady had an overpressure incident.
ApacheCoTodd
member
I think it definitely had to do with riding the slide forward and no doubt component age/quality/spec after that. I'm betting she had "the perfect storm" of poor battery lock, worn/outa spec firing pin and possibly bolt specs as well.
I've spent years putting together as many true factory and armorer's specification tools/check blocks/dummy components and even given the inherent complexity of the M1 Garand, I'm still amazed at how many check tools there were for the myriad possibilities for that action to be out of spec - either through individual component dimensions or a combination of one or more conspiring to fail together.
I've spent years putting together as many true factory and armorer's specification tools/check blocks/dummy components and even given the inherent complexity of the M1 Garand, I'm still amazed at how many check tools there were for the myriad possibilities for that action to be out of spec - either through individual component dimensions or a combination of one or more conspiring to fail together.
FlyinBryan
Member
its not easy to actually overload 30-06 ammo for the m1 if the correct powder is used, at least not to the point of causing this kind of explosion.
it would be very easy with the wrong powder though
it would be very easy with the wrong powder though
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