M1A Questions (getting rid of flash suppressor, etc.)

[DougB]

I've been thinking of getting an M1A (probably the "Scout Squad" model). I don't have much experience with these rifles, and I have a few questions:

- I live in California, and so, will have to get the muzzle break version, but I believe this question would apply to the flash suppressor as well: Is there a way to remove the muzzle break/flash suppressor and have only a front sight? Or possibly a much shorter muzzle break? I prefer shorter rifles, and would prefer to have either extra barrel length or nothing. It bugs me to have to have an extra couple of inches of muzzle break on the end of the barrel.

- I've heard Springfield stocks criticized. I would prefer a synthetic stock, although the walnut stocks look nice. I see an outfut called "Freds" sells a bunch of surplus M14/M1A stocks. Would some synthetic stock other than Springfield's be significantly better? I'm considering getting the wood stock for looks, and then buying an after-market synthetic for every day use.

- Are there any particular problems with the Springfield "scout" (forward) scope mount? I'm aware of the general pros and cons to this position, but I'm undecided about how best to attach a removable scope to an M1A (I want the iron sight option as well).

Thanks in advance for your help with any or all of these questions.

Doug

 

[Kaylee]

*heh* guess who wins when the cat wakes me up at 4:30 AM?

1 - There's a few for ditching the muzzle brake I know of for a shorter OAL. One, you can get a vortex flash suppressor from Smith Enterprises. That doesn't cut your OAL length much at all though, and to be honest I doubt it's CA legal, even minus the bayo lug. They also carry their own muzzle brake, but if it's not the same thing that's already on the CA model, it looks pretty close. Last option I can think of is to have a gunsmith take the assembly, and cut off everything from about an inch forward of the muzzle.. I'd leave enough to protect the crown in general principles, but it's an easy enough job I'd reckon. (just please PLEASE use an aftermarket -- don't butcher a USGI assembly! )

2 -- The Springfield fiberglass stock IS the same as Fred's stock, just with the selector notch filled in (I think) and an extra coat of crinkle finish (which flakes off). Personally, if I were getting a Springfield and wasn't sold on one of the camo models, I'd just get whichever was cheaper.. preferably one with a nice wood stock, then just order a fiberglass one from Fred and refinish it.. you can do at least as good a refinish on it yourself as Springfield does, I'd bet, and likely save a bit in the process.

Another option for aftermarket stocks is the McMillan line. Spendy, very nice (kinda chunky/bulky to me though, at least the ones I've seen) and UberTactical.

3. Scout mount. No clue, never used 'em. Not many complaints about 'em that I've heard though.



-K

 

[BenW]

I would get whichever stock choice you can get the cheapest (usually the fiberglass) then spend $15 on a Fred's stock (or two), which as Kaylee pointed out is the same as the Springfield without the crinkle finish. I need extra pull (because rifles seem to be made for short-armed people ) so I buy M14 buttpads from Cheaper than Dirt to stick on the back of the Fred's stocks. If you get a Scout model, you will need to make a cutout for the scope mount on the forearm. It's a piece of cake with a Dremel and a cutting wheel. Just work in a well ventilated area and wear a mask -- that fiberglass dust is nasty!

 

[DougB]

Thanks for the information. I'd also thought of just cutting off the muzzle break (shortening it to maybe 1/2" or so). I'm kind of surprised that this isn't a more common request - it doesn't seem like a lot of people go out and put 3" muzzle breaks on their rifles, but everyone seems okay with having one on an M1A. I can understand that the GI flash suppressor looks "right" on these rifles (even thought I'd rather not have it), and the long muzzle break duplicates the profile of the flash suppressor. I was just expecting to hear that there is some sort of readily available replacement that is much shorter (or eliminates it entirely). Am I the only one who doesn't see the need for such a long muzzle break on a 9lb+ semi-auto .308? On the shorter-barreled Scout/Bush models, I would much rather have a 20" barrel, than the 18" barrel with 2-3" of muzzle break. Maybe they should make something that slips over the barrel, looks just like the GI flash suppressor, but is non-functional. This could give the GI look, with increased velocity.

Regarding the stocks, I think the synthetic is less expensive, so I'll probably just try the Springfield synthetic and refinish/replace it myself if the finish chips. The camo option also looks interesting - do you think it will hold up better than Springfield's black finish?

Thanks again for the info, and please continue.

Doug

 

[Kaylee]

I'm purty sure the length of the flash suppressor ain't a style thing, it's a funtion of .308 making a bigger gas ball than a .223, especially out of a shorter barrel. I asked around a bit last year from various manufacturers trying to find the same thing you are -- a shorter FS for .308.

At the time, the best I could find was the vortex already mentioned, and um.. someone (I THINK it's the guys who are making the Phantom, though I'd have to check my notes) have another .308 model under R&D for a customer wanting to pimp a new .308 to the gov't boys. They wouldn't tell me any more about it than that.

Dunno if this helps..

-K

 

[Frohickey]

Compare the flash suppressor of the FAL with the M14, and they are about the same.

Compare that with the one on the end of the M60, and its about the same length too.

 

[DougB]

Okay, I accept that flash suppressors on .308 military rifles tend to be quite long, probably for good reason. I'm not saying they are a bad idea. BUT, since I can't have a flash suppressor, I don't see why I have to have an unneeded muzzle break that is equally long. I have an FAL that doesn't have a muzzle break, and don't feel any particular need for one. A friend of mine has a break on his FAL, and it seems REALLY loud at the range. I'm not suggesting that stop making the breaks - just that it would be nice to have a shorter option (or "no break" option) for those that don't need it.

Doug

 

[Adventurer_96]

UberTactical.

That, sir, is hilarious! I have a McMillan stock coming this week, attached to a rifle.

 

[Frohickey]

DougB... you are missing the point...

For the politicos...
M1As sold in the state of California are sold with a muzzle break, and no bayonet lug. This is to satisfy the legal provisions of SB23 (??features-based assault weapon definition), a necessary and fair law to prevent the use of assault weapons by criminals.

For everyone else...
M1As sold in the occupied state of California are sold with a muzzle break and no bayonet lug. Even though it is classified as a muzzle break by the California DOJ, in order to keep being sold in the state, it inadvertently also reduces the flash signature of the rifle, maybe not as much as a normal flash suppressor, but some. It also protects the muzzle crown, allows the use of original genuine GI front sights and parts, and allows patriots to keep their rifleman skills honed for the time the tyrants are need to feed the tree of liberty.

 

[DougB]

Frohickey,

Since I started this thread, and they are my questions, don't I get to decide what "the point" is?

I'm not saying that there's no benefit in the muzzle break, or that Springfield should discontinue them, just that I'd rather have the option of having a much shorter one, or none at all. Would't it be pretty easy to make something that would still work with the standard front sight and protect the crown, but not stick out an additional 3" or so past the muzzle?

And, just to play devil's advocate, if the flash suppressor or (especially) the muzzle break are so important and beneficial, why doesn't anyone put them on Garands, or bolt, or lever-action .308s? I think the answer is that they are traditional on M14s, but not on the other rifles. I realize that the flash suppressor is beneficial under certain circumstances on a military rifle, but for the way many/most people would use an M1A, I think having a shorter, handier rifle that performs equally, or a rifle with the same over all length that provides maybe an extra 100 FPS with the same ammo (due to the extra barrel length), would be a greater benefit. And, I don't think lack of a muzzle break exactly destroy's an MIA's utility as a combat weapon either.

Which brings up a related question - how difficult is it install/remove the muzzle break/flash suppressor? I believe a special tool is required, but if its pretty easy, maybe I could have the best of both worlds.

Doug

 

[Frohickey]

Skunky has the questions along the same lines.

Its not difficult at all, its just that the front sight is on the flash suppressor/muzzle break assembly, and to remove it would mean you don't have a front sight.

 

[DougB]

So, I could cut the muzzle break down to just past the muzzle and still have everything work okay...and if I ever decide I need the muzzle break/flash suppressor, it would be an easy swap? That doesn't sound too bad. If someone just made a nicely finished front sight/short muzzle protector, that would be ideal. Thanks again for the info.

Doug

 

[Frohickey]

Why don't you do this?

Buy the standard model M1A, not the scout version. This will have a wood stock and a muzzle break, and the longer 21 inch barrel.

Then go to www.fredsm14stocks.com, and order a synthetic stock, doesn't have to be pretty. Go and refinish this and paint it to your liking.

While you have the stock drying, look at the muzzle break and see how much you want to cut it by, remove it, and then cut it, and dremel it smooth.

After that, you should have a M1A about the length of a scout model, but with more barrel.

Get tinted shooting glasses, for the times you have to shoot at night.

 

[Al Thompson]

Guys, it's "brake" as in to slow something down, not "break" as in to render useless.

Y'all want to break your muzzle "brakes".


FWIW, my AR-10 had a great brake, but was very uncomfortable to shoot without good hearing protection. I doubled up (plugs and muffs) when I benched it. The obnoxious amount of noise was why I sold it.

 

[DougB]

Thanks for the spelling correction - I'd have realized that if I'd thought about it.

Also, the noise issue is what I noticed with a friend's muzzle brake-equipped FAL - its one of the reasons I don't particularly want one.

Doug